Podcast: Discussing Porn Addiction and Anxiety, One (Podcast) Episode at a Time with Paul Gilmartin

Inside Mental Health Podcast Guest and Host Bio

From 1995 to 2011, Paul Gilmartin co-hosted TBS’ “Dinner and a Movie” and performed his half-hour stand-up special “Comedy Central Presents: Paul Gilmartin.”

He is a frequent guest on the “Jimmy Dore Show,” performing political satire as his right-wing U.S. Rep. Richard Martin (R-Ohio).

In 2011, he began “The Mental Illness Happy Hour,” a weekly audio podcast consisting of interviews with artists, friends, listeners, and the occasional mental health professional about all the battles in our heads. With a 5/5 Apple Podcasts rating, the show is frequently chosen as an Editor’s Pick. It was chosen by Esquire magazine as one of the best podcasts of 2016 and featured in the PBS Documentary “A New State of Mind.”

Our host, Gabe Howard, is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, “Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations,” available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author.

Gabe makes his home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. He lives with his supportive wife, Kendall, and a Miniature Schnauzer dog that he never wanted, but now can’t imagine life without.

To book Gabe for your next event or learn more about him, please visit gabehoward.com.

Episode Transcript

Producer’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to Inside Mental Health: A Psych Central Podcast where experts share experiences and the latest thinking on mental health and psychology. Here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Welcome to the show, everyone. I’m your host, Gabe Howard. Calling in today we have Paul Gilmartin. Paul is the host of the Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast, one of the coolest mental health podcasts there is. He’s also on TV at one point. I think it was TBS’ Dinner and a Movie, right, Paul?

Paul Gilmartin: Correct.

Gabe Howard: Hey, hey, welcome to the podcast.

Paul Gilmartin: Thanks, buddy. It’s good to talk to you again.

Gabe Howard: I love it when you stop by because you and I are both middle aged white guys who run mental health podcasts. So we could we could kind of start our own support group now. We’ve been around for a long time and we’ve seen just an incredible amount of changes. For starters, we no longer have to explain to people what podcasts are. How are you feeling about how these changes are happening to us?

Paul Gilmartin: About not having to explain what a podcast is. That’s a relief.

Gabe Howard: That’s the best part.

Paul Gilmartin: That’s the best part. The rest of it is anxiety ridden. You know, as you know, the podcast field, every day thousands of podcasts get, get added and yeah, it’s getting harder and harder to get new listeners and sometimes even just to hold on to the, to the current listeners because they have so many choices or, I don’t know, maybe they find my podcast repetitive or they lose interest. But yeah, that, that definitely occupies some, some space in my head.

Gabe Howard: When you and I were talking about doing an episode together, the anxiety that you talked about, it spoke to me so much. And, and one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you today on the show is because when people listen to mental health influencers, they assume that we’re doing fantastic. That that there’s, you know, one, we’re all rich. That’s the first thing I’ve noticed. Every time I meet somebody, I’m like, oh my Gabe, you’re so rich off your podcast. And I’m like, really? Like, who’s taking my money? Where did it go and who? They think I have it all figured out. You know, they hear the show, they’re edited. I try to give good information. Obviously, I always end on a high note, you know, lots of hope. And, well, I try to take them on a journey. Apparently, the journey I’m taking them on is that if you listen to my show, it’s all going to be okay, which is somewhat flattering, but that is also anxiety provoking because then I realized I’ve just misled, you know, tens of thousands of people, and now

Paul Gilmartin: Hmm.

Gabe Howard: I feel really crappy about that. How is all of this working out in your own mind? Because you’re under a tremendous amount of pressure to produce week after week after week, and everybody thinks that you’re just rolling in it because of it. And I don’t just mean money, I just mean, you know, fame and awards. And a lot of people want to be Paul Gilmartin.

Paul Gilmartin: Oh, my God, that’s so bizarre to hear. I mean, I do know that that. I do believe that my podcast Is good quality and it provides a service and I enjoy doing it. But, you know, having a bit of a perfectionist streak and also being a procrastinator, that’s a terrible combination. You know, stare, stare, staring out the window.

Gabe Howard: That should be your motto. Mental Illness Happy Hour: it’ll be perfect later.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah, yeah. Staring out the window, you know, wishing you could summon the energy to do the things that you feel like you need to do to improve. It is an it’s a scary, kind of frustrating place to be. And so, you know, it’s important to kind of meet yourself where you’re at while also kind of setting goals and just trying to take baby steps every day. So that’s kind of where I’m at. But there’s a voice in my head that’s always telling me, you’re not doing enough. You’re [bleep]. You know, you’re going to you’re going to die penniless. But I do talk about, you know, I don’t get super detailed about it, but I have been asking for financial help via Patreon during the episodes. And, you know, the listeners have definitely stepped up, but it’s still not nearly enough. And so Yeah, it’s stressful.

Gabe Howard: But isn’t that anxiety provoking as well? Whenever I have crowdsourced any sort of project,

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I always get like, I don’t want to call it hate mail because it might not quite be hate, but it’s definitely negative. It’s like, well, why can’t you just do this? I thought you wanted to help. Why are you asking us for money? You have so much and you’re taking money from mentally ill people. And that’s been every project that I’ve ever done, ever. I always get those sort of emails and it kind of hits me

Paul Gilmartin: That’s really.

Gabe Howard: Like I’m bringing it up because it hits me.

Paul Gilmartin: That is really shitty that somebody would say that, you know? But you got to remember that people listening to our podcast have issues. So why would they not? You know, I got an email from a guy who was like I think he used the word whining for money. And he’s like, and didn’t you take a vacation two summers ago?

Gabe Howard: Yeah. You’re not entitled to vacations if you work in this space, Paul.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah. Yeah, dude.

Gabe Howard: You didn’t know that? I’m on that guy’s side. I’m sorry. I can’t believe that’s the example that you used.

Paul Gilmartin: [Laughter]

Gabe Howard: Wow. For shame. For shame.

Paul Gilmartin: But, you know, one of the things that I’ve gotten pretty good at doing the podcast, and this is probably a result of being in support groups and really kind of addressing my issues and the way my, you know, kind of warped brain. Views things is to is to. Kind of suss out, okay, what’s that person’s issue? And what is constructive criticism that that I can take in without shaming myself. And I’m pretty good about that. But, you know, when we put something out there in the world especially where people can comment on it and give feedback it’s. It can be anxiety inducing,

Gabe Howard: Okay.

Paul Gilmartin: Especially if we let it.

Gabe Howard: Well, then, let’s not let it. Let’s get to something that I imagine is less anxiety provoking.

Paul Gilmartin: Let’s talk about how great the political situation is in America.

Gabe Howard: No, no, we did that on the last one and I got hate mail. [Laughter]

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah, yeah. I think I have weeded out the people who are the polar opposites of my views, and the people whose views are the polar opposite of mine, tend to not be the type of people that want to talk about their feelings or consider therapy. You know, they tend to be the therapy is for people who are weak, suck it up and you know, etc., etc.

Gabe Howard: And yet they are listening. I know we touched on the last time you were on the show. You and I touched on a quick political. It wasn’t even actually a political topic. It was just something that was in the news over and over that involved a politician. And

Paul Gilmartin: Mm-hmm.

Gabe Howard: Some folks lost their mind. They gave me a bunch of bad reviews, said that I turned a mental health podcast into a politics. I was pushing my own agenda.

Paul Gilmartin: Yep, I get that.

Gabe Howard: We were not. Anybody’s welcome to go back and listen to it. I’m you’ll find the two minutes. You’ll know exactly what it is. And I think any reasonable person, no matter what your political stripe, would just be like. Well, that that would be annoying to see that on the news over and over again.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah, because it does affect our mental health personally

Gabe Howard: It does,

Paul Gilmartin: And nationally.

Gabe Howard: It does. It does over and over and over again. Absolutely. So let’s spin this ever so slightly. Just so the tone of the show is not so pessimistic. What is going well, Paul? How are you managing all of this?

Paul Gilmartin: My support network being able to share having a girlfriend who does not try to fix me but listens. Yeah, sometimes she might make suggestions or, you know, give me another perspective on things. But support, support, support, support. I think also having a spiritual practice, you know, praying, meditating, believing in a higher power all of those things and then I think lived experience of getting through difficult things when I thought, there’s no way I can I can get through this you know, you get through enough of those, you realize, you know, the universe has its own schedule, and I can’t control reality. I can only control my reaction to it and try to continue to live a principled life and not go to that place, that caveman part of my brain whose initial reaction is I’m screwed. It’s not going to work out. And now I’m going to act out of fear and go against my moral code. So that’s kind of what helps keep me grounded. But, you know, the fear and the anxiety, it comes and goes. But I definitely feel soothed when I’m around my support network, whether it’s phone calls or meetings. Therapy? All of the above. And having. Nurturing hobbies. Playing hockey, woodworking. Uhm.

Gabe Howard: It seems like you’re describing balance. Like having a lot

Paul Gilmartin: Yes.

Gabe Howard: Of balance in your life is, it’s helped.

Paul Gilmartin: It’s a great word.

Gabe Howard: But, I interrupted you a little bit. You also mentioned being alcohol free.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah, 20 years. 20 years sober. And then you know, in terms of. Sex issues. Not watched pornography in a long time. And that really helps. And it’s not a moral thing about not watching pornography. I used to use it to numb myself and to escape my problems, and that’s not a good thing. One of the things that I realized is taking breaks from things that are really kind of intense in a, in an addictive way allows my body to wind down and to experience the pleasures of healthy things that are more subtle. You know, when I was watching pornography, I had no interest in woodworking. And then as I got away from watching that, the joy of woodworking came back. And I’m in that place now where it’s one of the things that really, you know, when I get into my shop and I start working on something, it feels like I’m just in a Jacuzzi. It just feels so soothing. And for me, that’s such a big part of coping in life is finding healthy ways of soothing myself. I think we all have things that we go to. You know, it could be skin picking. It could be compulsively shopping or watching porn or doing drugs or being in an addictive relationship. And I just look at those not as like moral choices, just not ideal coping mechanisms. And for me, much of life is just upgrading my coping mechanisms.

Gabe Howard: Their maladaptive coping skills, right?

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I want to swing back to pornography real quick and clarify something, Paul. Because I think there’s probably a lot of listeners who leaned in and immediately dismissed you as, okay, well, he must be religious. He’s a he’s a he’s fanatical. He thinks it’s immoral. He thinks that porn is wrong or something along those lines. But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re specifically saying that porn is not a bad thing, but you felt that you were addicted to pornography and therefore the addiction is the bad thing. Am I framing that correctly?

Paul Gilmartin: Yes. And it’s not like, you know, I would go weeks, sometimes months, without looking at it. It’s not like I was looking at it every night, but there would be weeks where I would look at it every night, and I’d be on there for three, four hours. You know, I think there’s a difference between using it as a release, for five, ten, 15 minutes and using it to escape your problems in life. And I don’t know if I could articulate it. I think for each person they would have to figure out on their own what is the difference. But to anybody, I would say, see what it’s like to take a break from it and find other ways to soothe yourself. There’s a good chance that your body and your mind may begin to attune itself to things that are more subtly pleasurable because your body is not in this state where it needs the intensity of, of things to match the intensity of pornography.

Gabe Howard: The other thing I’m thinking about is pornography could really be a placeholder for anybody. You can really become addicted and or abuse anything. I think back to my own life, whenever I would do something good, I would eat. Whenever something bad would happen, I would eat. And if somebody’s like, oh, well, Gabe, you celebrated and you had a cookie, who cares? And I was like, well, yeah, but I celebrated and I had a sheet cake. And then later on I was sad. So I ate a gallon and a half of, you know, Sam’s Club ice cream. And then, of course, I ate two large pizzas for lunch because that’s what I ate for lunch. And now you’re starting to get this idea that, okay, it’s not the food, it’s the addiction.

Paul Gilmartin: Yes.

Gabe Howard: Plus, I wasn’t even enjoying the food, so

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I know that it’s pornography for you, but anybody listening it there, there’s probably something that would otherwise be okay. That

Paul Gilmartin: Yes.

Gabe Howard: Is not okay because of how you’re handling it.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah.

Sponsor Break

Gabe Howard: And we’re back with Paul Gilmartin, host of the Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast.

Paul Gilmartin: The word that I like to apply to any addiction is oblivion. That’s what we’re seeking, you know, is the escape. The whether it’s numbing ourselves or it’s just flooding our brain with dopamine. You know, I had to give up video games because I was just bathing my brain in dopamine, and I would be hung over the next day.

Gabe Howard: But I got to ask, how did you put this together? You specifically said that it wasn’t working for you, and so you replaced it with something that did work for you.

Paul Gilmartin: Right.

Gabe Howard: And I’ve. I’ve got to imagine that at least some of our listeners are thinking Am I in this position? Is this not working for me? How did you figure out that it wasn’t working for you?

Paul Gilmartin: Support groups. Support groups. I had to start going to support groups ww my fear of intimacy, and I didn’t think that that was at the core of it. When I started going, I started going to this support group because I felt How do I how do I put this? Like, like my heart was disconnected from my genitals and sex. Sex was for me purely a physical act. I couldn’t feel the emotion of it. And it wasn’t until years of being in this support group that I began to realize my childhood really [bleep] me up. Having a mom that had no boundaries and was creepy, that instilled in me a fear of women. Not that they were going to physically harm me, but that they were going to overwhelm me with their emotional needs. You know, when you’re sexually objectified as a kid It can affect your ability to tend to objectify people as an adult and to use sex as a coping mechanism. And instead of it being a connective experience, it’s about control. And you know, one-night stands were like the ultimate for me because I didn’t have to worry about that person’s problems.

Paul Gilmartin: It was just a physical act. And I didn’t understand that trauma. An intimacy are so closely linked, and it probably sounds really obvious as I say that, but I had to learn how to set boundaries with people. Not just romantically, but platonically. Professionally. All of that stuff I had to begin to self-advocate. Advocate. And as I began to do that, and I began to talk about my shame and support groups and the love and support I felt made it easier for me to then be in a romantic relationship and not feel overwhelmed or cornered, and to set boundaries and to speak up for myself. And if, you know, my girlfriend said something that hurt my feelings and it’s rare that it happens to say, hey, that hurt my feelings, rather than stuffing it down and then going and watching porn.

Gabe Howard: I can definitely see where you’re going with this. I’m curious myself. I experienced hypersexuality with bipolar disorder again, a lot of one-night stands.

Paul Gilmartin: Oh, yeah.

Gabe Howard: It’s a lot to realize, I mean, to realize all of this. And now I’ve been married almost 13 years, so, so I sort of went through a similar journey or what sounds like a similar journey as you, but I’m curious, how did you realize it? And I know, you know, you said therapy and support etc. but like from a personal level, where was the moment and how did you change? I was really good at one-night stands. It was my whole life. It was,

Paul Gilmartin: Mm-hmm.

Gabe Howard: You know, I had all the apps, I had all the, I mean, I just, I it became a hobby almost. And turning it off was very difficult for me. And that’s why I’m curious about your journey, because the way that you sort of described it as, hey, I went to therapy, realized it was bad, and then boom, I’m in a well-respected, good boundaries relationship and I know there’s details missing.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah. It took it took years and it was a gradual lot of two steps forward, one step back. And I think one of the biggest things was, you know, when I would stumble. I would try to have compassion for myself. You know, I say it all the time, but nobody’s ever shamed themselves into being the person they want to be. The most important thing is that you don’t give up. And. I have never stopped. You know, I started going to that support group 15 years ago, and I’ve never stopped going. And there were years. When I would backslide and couldn’t get any. I couldn’t get any traction and just felt like. I’m just not meant. To be somebody who’s successful with intimacy or fidelity or. It just took time. It took time, and vulnerability was a really big, I would say the three major things are identifying my needs and asking for them, setting boundaries and being kind and patient with myself. Self-compassion doesn’t mean that you can’t make a note to yourself about, okay, what was going on with me that might have triggered me acting out and beginning to put two and two together and go, oh well, I didn’t speak up for myself. Or I’m worried about this or that and. As I began to do that, I got better and better at eliminating the things that are using tools to deal with anxiety or self-hatred

Gabe Howard: As you were talking about self-hatred, the thing that popped into my mind was imposter syndrome. For example, even as we sit here, I think to myself, God, I’d love to be this guy. He’s the host

Paul Gilmartin: [Laughter]

Gabe Howard: Of Mental Illness Happy Hour. But then you described your life, and I’m like, man, I don’t want to be this guy. It sounds terrible.

Paul Gilmartin: [Laughter]

Gabe Howard: So I’m having a little bit of a of a little bit of a crisis on my own, but. But I got to tell you, the thing that you can’t get around is that you’re very successful in this space. Mental Illness Happy Hour is an incredible. I’m saying it on my podcast. Like, half of you are going to turn this off and then go listen to Paul’s podcast. So please don’t do that. That will hurt my feelings very much. But do you feel like you suffer from imposter syndrome?

Paul Gilmartin: Oh, god, yes.

Gabe Howard: You have to know how important and successful you are.

Paul Gilmartin: I do not think of myself overwhelmingly as successful. I just see the failures. I think of myself as lazy, having blown it. I know that I help people, and I do feel it’s very much a part of my life’s purpose to do this podcast. I do not feel that I started doing it and continued to do it by accident, or that it’s the wrong choice. What I tell myself is that it has not grown enough. And that’s a personal failure of mine, because I’m a scared, lazy little boy.

Gabe Howard: As you were talking, I was thinking about my own podcast and I can always find ways to insult it. So, for example, let’s say that the podcast grows 10% year over year. It’s a hell of a number. Like, I should be really proud, right? But then I’ll.

Paul Gilmartin: Especially in today’s environment. Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I know, I know, but then I’ll read an article somewhere that says that overall, podcasting in the health and wellness space where my podcast happens to live grew 12%. Well, now wait a minute. I,

Paul Gilmartin: [Laughter] Oh, god.

Gabe Howard: I didn’t, I didn’t keep up. So now I take the 10% growth that I should be very happy with, and I turn it into a -2% growth. I failed, I didn’t even keep up with inflation. Paul and I start telling everybody I can find how much I suck. And of course, they’re just looking at me and like you just said. And he said, hey, that’s not a bad number, but I’m really disappointed in it.

Paul Gilmartin: So what kind of support do you have to counter that mean voice in your head?

Gabe Howard: I mean, I host Paul Gilmartin on my podcast, and I’m hoping that he tells me like something that’s really helpful for free and that I don’t have to pay for it. Making friends is hard. Paul. I just I just interview people who have knowledge in an area that I need, and I just call that therapy. That’s that’s what I do.

Paul Gilmartin: Buddy, you need a defense attorney in your mind. Cause going it solo, whoo. That is rowing in a boat solo with holes in it.

Gabe Howard: I know we’re almost out of time, but so I just I want to ask you kind of an w ended question, what advice or information or knowledge do you have for our listeners to take away?

Paul Gilmartin: Find your tribe. Find your tribe. It. For many of us we keep going to a dry well for water. And I’m not saying you need to cut people out of your life. You might need to, but if you don’t begin to form healthy relationships, you’ll never know what a right sized standard is for being respected. And likewise You need to understand where you’re not being healthy towards other people. It’s very easy to just be resentful and not look at our part in things. And that’s where support groups were healthy and helpful for me was I had to look at my own part in things. I had to look at my own selfishness and the damage I created, and that was hard to look at. But it was life changing because it helped me become morally and ethically more of the person that I wanted to be. I always intended to do the right thing, but until I got support and found my tribe, I just, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t do it.

Gabe Howard: And just for the listeners to know, it took you a long time to build that tribe. This wasn’t something that happened in a weekend or even a season.

Paul Gilmartin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I met a lot of the people that I’m now great friends with who I know pretty much everything about, and they know pretty much everything about me. But it takes time to build those relationships and deepen that and seeing them every week and seeing the ebbs and flows of our lives and getting those hugs and those attaboys and Helping each other when we’re down. That was life changing and is life changing for me.

Gabe Howard: It is always great when you stop by Paul. I love it when you’re here. And of course, your podcast, Mental Illness Happy Hour, is sincerely one of the greatest mental health podcasts ever.

Paul Gilmartin: Always great to talk to you, Gabe.

Gabe Howard: And it’s always great to talk to you as well. Thank you for being here. And thank you to all of our listeners. My name is Gabe Howard, and I’m an award-winning public speaker who could be available for your next event. I also wrote a book. It’s called “Mental Illness Is an Asshole and Other Observations,” which you can get on Amazon, but you can grab a signed copy with free show swag or learn more about me over at gabehoward.com. Wherever you downloaded this episode, please follow or subscribe to the show. It is absolutely free and you don’t want to miss a thing. And do me a favor. Recommend the show. Share your favorite episode on social media. Bring us up in a support group. Sharing the show with the people you know is how we grow. I will see everybody next time on Inside Mental Health.

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