Life is tough. Life with mental illness is tougher. Life with mental illness on top of other conditions and life experiences can seem too tough. Today’s guest shares how she dealt with Tourette Syndrome, OCD, anxiety, depression, and many other things, by tapping into her own super powers. Perhaps you can, too.
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About Our Guest
Everyone has challenges but some people have more than others. Brett Francis knows this from personal experience. Only now she turns those challenges—her own and other people’s—into assets. Her mantra is “no one is broken” and she means it when she says “our struggles are not our fault.”
Her Not Broken® Radio show is heard on hundreds of stations throughout the globe; she is the bestselling author of Not Broken: How to Overcome Mental Health Challenges and Unlock Your Full Potential. In addition, she hosts the TV series Breaking the Barriers.
Some of the challenges that have made Brett a stronger person include Tourette’s syndrome, ADHD, childhood bullying, anxiety, panic disorder, OCD, an abusive relationship, a miscarriage and depression.
Brett’s mission is to educate individuals and society at large about mental health and why having mental health issues or a family member with them is a lot more normal than most people think. She wants to eradicate the stigma associated with mental health and disabilities so that those who are coping with such issues realize they are no different than having diabetes or some other common physical ailment. She advocates for greater education and awareness of these common problems.
SUPER POWERS SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Narrator 1: Welcome to the Psych Central show, where each episode presents an in-depth look at issues from the field of psychology and mental health – with host Gabe Howard and co-host Vincent M. Wales.
Gabe Howard: Hello everyone and welcome to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Show podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me as always is Vincent M. Wales. And today Vince and I will be talking with Brett Francis. Brett’s mission is to educate individuals and society at large about mental health and why having mental health issues or a family member with them is a lot more normal than people think. Brett. welcome to the show.
Brett Francis: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate you guys having me on.
Gabe Howard: Oh it’s our pleasure.
Vincent M. Wales: Definitely glad to have you. Brett, my first question is this: how did this become your mission? What happened in your life to push you in this direction?
Brett Francis: Yeah well, it was a long road, I’ll tell you that for sure. When I was 16, I was diagnosed with Tourette’s Syndrome and severe ADHD. And then of course, 17, I was rediagnosed with the same, but in addition, anxiety, OCD, panic disorder. Now that doesn’t mean that I only had anxiety when I was 17. Since I can remember. I’ve been struggling with anxiety and panic and mental health, mood regulation, all those kinds of things. And I think a lot of it was from being bullied when I was in high school. I was bullied very badly. I was shoved in lockers every day. And that really was the big start of it. You know, when I was seven years old, my parents said, Oh, just tell everybody that you’ve got Tourette’s Syndrome. Well, as you guys know, mental health is mis-educated or maybe not known a lot about, sometimes, or it’s a taboo topic, which we’re all working at bringing more awareness to it and making it less taboo and more of normal conversation. But Tourette’s is still one of those things that is very misunderstood. And so people would think, oh she’s going to be swearing like the girl on the movie or like the person in the movie. And so I got really ridiculed and bullied for my Tourette’s Syndrome for a very long time, shoved in lockers every day, and then when I was 15 years old, I was raped for my first time. And then, through that I did a lot of substance abuse and I really was starting to fail in school after my rape. And so I had a lot of mercy passing because the teachers felt sorry that I was being bullied. And at this time there wasn’t a lot of education about not only Tourette’s Syndrome, about mental illness. Parents did the best that they could, but it was still a really really big struggle for me. And so, when I turned 18 years old, very shortly after I turned 18, I actually got pregnant unexpectedly with my high school sweetheart and then at 19 I had a miscarriage at about four months. And then I hit rock bottom, and through all of this, after my rape, after some traumatic events in my life,and then again after my miscarriage, was the last attempt that I had on my own life, to take my own life. And so I’ve struggled through my whole life and still to this very day I have bad days. And I just want to bring… my mission has become that because I want to bring awareness to mental health and help people understand that it is normal, it’s just like having diabetes or you get a broken leg you get a cast. If you have mental illness, you try medication. You know, really working at normalizing that because I would’ve done anything for somebody to be able to relate to me and say, hey that doesn’t make you a screw up, like I felt a lot of my life, I felt very broken for a very big portion of my life. And that’s why I do what I do, not only because I’m passionate about it but I just know I love every minute of it. And that’s become my life’s mission.
Gabe Howard: I love that and I also love the way that Vin asked the question. It’s like we see that you’re a mental health advocate. What happened to you? And I say that to be a little bit funny but it really is true. I’ve noticed that people in the mental health advocacy space are either people like like me, I live with bipolar disorder, or people like you with Tourette’s Syndrome and anxiety and everything that we just learned about you; Vin, of course, has persistent depressive disorder and it really seems like either you or somebody that you love suffers from a mental illness in order to really occupy this space. And I’m hoping that some day I will walk up to somebody and say, Oh my God, you’re a mental illness advocate. Why? And they’ll say, because mental illness is serious. And I’ll be like well but you have it, right? No. A loved one? No, mental illness is serious. We need to help out. And that will just be like a great day – a great day.
Vincent M. Wales: That would be nice.
Brett Francis: I really look forward to that day, too. I mean just to hear, yeah I’m passionate about it… You know, you hear people, kids talk about being an astronaut, a geologist, a trained person. Or a veterinarian or six foot tall blond model. That’s what I want to be when I grew up, still, by the way, guys. [laughter] And where is the, oh I’m passionate about mental illness a I want to stop the stigma, just because I can. Instead of being an astronaut or whatever, I look forward to that day as well.
Vincent M. Wales: So earlier you mentioned Tourette’s Syndrome and how it’s so misunderstood, because as you pointed, out most people just think of it as the stereotypical swearing without any kind of restraint sort of thing. But it takes many other forms. Can you share some of those with our audience?
Brett Francis: So the swearing is actually called coprolalia and it only happens of 4 to 7 percent of people with Tourette’s Syndrome. So Tourette’s Syndrome is divided into a couple of different things. You have motor tics and then you have verbal tics. And then out of those each of those there’s simple and then there’s complex tics. Simple ones would be like hand jerks, sniffing, snorting, blinking your eyes, lip smacking, things like that. Those are really a lot of the common simple ones. And now when we get into the complex ones, that can be anything from, like I’ve had these where my tics are so bad that I feel like I need to echo the sounds on an action movie or something, or some people feel the need to bark like a dog or repeat themselves saying something, and they have to say it in just the right way and just the tone of voice. That one I actually know, like I said, from the sound effects in movies, or yell at the screen, or things like that. So it’s a lot of different, uncontrollable… and sometimes, I’m like, wow I didn’t know that my Tourette’s would want me to do that. You know, like you just have these new tics, they’re ever changing. So when I was younger I did have quite a bit of prominent verbal tics and I was yelling. I never swore, but in the middle of my sentences… they were… my sentences were like 100 different volumes. I’d be from screaming at the top of my lungs to like hardly mumbling. I had this one where I had to breathe all of my air out and I had to go, [heavy exhale] and breathe it all out to the point where I had nothing left in my lungs. And as you age and mature into it, you can either grow out of it or you can continue on with it. And it’s fairly mild because it’s worse than your hormonal years when you’re going through puberty and all that stuff. But as you mature into it, your tics kind of get solidified. There’s a few small ones and then there’s a few ones that are like moving, and so it’s sometimes every six months I’ll be surprised I’ll be like, Oh this one’s fun, you know? So it’s changing. And so sometimes it’s new but it’s also frustrating sometimes because you’re like, oh I just got used to the one that I was the new one that I had six months ago, now I have another tick. So and sometimes you go three years and you don’t have a new one.
Vincent M. Wales: Very interesting.
Gabe Howard: I did not know that either. Thank you. Thank you for sharing.
Brett Francis: You’re welcome.
Gabe Howard: You are the host of the Not Broken radio show, which is heard on many different radio stations throughout America. Can you tell us why did you name it Not Broken?
Brett Francis: Well, it actually followed my book. So my book is called Not Broken and that’s where I came up with “not broken,” because I spent a large portion of my life feeling very broken and going into psychologists, psychiatrists, counselor’s appointments, and even people in the general population, with the stigma I felt like a screw up and like I couldn’t do anything right. And I’m sure that you guys have felt like that before with your mental illness.
Gabe Howard: Many times, many times.
Brett Francis: And that’s not a good feeling to have like you don’t fit anywhere. And so the book and the Not Broken name was inspired by feeling like that for a lot of my life. So I say, whenever I talk about mental health, my slogan is “not broken,” because people with mental health challenges and disabilities are not broken. And they don’t need to be stereotypically fixed. That doesn’t mean that they won’t need to learn to manage or doesn’t mean that they don’t need help, but they’re not broken. You know, we don’t look at a person with diabetes as broken. We look at them as somebody who needs to manage that disease. And I think we should look at mental illness the same.
Gabe Howard: I couldn’t agree more. Thank you so much. I love that. I love that.
Brett Francis: Thank you.
Vincent M. Wales: Let’s talk about how mental health and physical health are linked. It’s something that Gabe and I have brought up several times over the course of our show. But I don’t think it’s ever been spoken about enough. Do you have any input on that?
Brett Francis: I’ll share a personal story. Recently on my spouse’s side, his nephew is 15 years old and he was hearing voices and he was scared that he was going to harm himself and other people. And so he said, like, I need I need help in voicing this. And we took him into the hospital and the hospital said, oh he’s hearing voices, but the mental health worker, crisis worker comes in and says, oh, he told me that he’s not worried about harming anybody, that he also promised that he wouldn’t harm himself or others. And we said, he’s 15 years old like he’s impulsive and he’s worried about that impulse may strike and that’s what it’s going to happen. It’s not like it’s premeditated. And so we really struggled because they wanted to see somebody for chest pains or a broken leg or there was a person in there that also they were treating for an overdose. They want to see the physical stuff. And I don’t think that it’s that they don’t take it seriously, I think it’s not 100 percent sure what to do in the hospital because there’s a lack resources. And so anyways, I basically sat down and I plunked my butt down in the chair and I said, look, we’re not leaving here until this gets taken seriously. He’s got a younger brother at home and he’s worried he’s going to hurt somebody or himself. And he’s hearing voices. And I said, he needs to be seen. He needs to be treated. And he needs to be admitted. And I said, we’re not signing any kind of liability release or self care plan or non self harm plan. So they get you to sign the papers and they tried to get him to sign them without anybody being present. And I felt like it was really not… like he wasn’t being taken seriously. Like I said, not at the fault of the people who work in the hospital because the nurses and doctors are amazing and they’re great at what they do and they care for people. And that’s incredible. But I just think that they really didn’t know what to do especially because it was a northern rural community. It was very difficult for them to know like they had to call the mental health crisis team and then the crisis team had to call the psychiatrist and then the psychiatrist finally said, Okay admit this 15 year old boy. And so I think that we really need to work at it and I was reading an article as well and in many states and provinces in the US, Canada, everywhere and all over the world, people that go into emergency rooms for mental illness are often discharged and those are the people that are back and they continue to come back because they continue to struggle. And so sometimes people know that they’re struggling mentally and sometimes they don’t. They go and talk like with me when I was panic disorder I would go into the hospital when I was younger for chest pains, thinking I was having a heart attack. Well it wasn’t a heart attack. It was my panic disorder. And so being a person that’s been dismissed in the hospital without things like that being taken seriously and then having to wait after you’ve been there four times because you’re having chest pains, then then waiting for 16 hours this is just a really frustrating thing. So having been in those shoes before in the emergency room for mental illness and with the lack of resources and education and the lack of the link that we’re talking about for mental health and physical health when the two go hand-in-hand. I mean if you’re depressed, the first thing I do when I’m depressed is I put on sweats and sit on the couch. Your personal hygiene goes, your mental health directly affects your physical health and vice versa. If I’m not feeling well physically, I’m not having a good day mentally, either, and I’m sure that you guys with your diagnoses, see the same thing.
Gabe Howard: Oh yeah it’s fascinating to me. You know physical health is your body and mental health is your brain. But of course your brain is IN your body. It’s fascinating.
Brett Francis: Yeah exactly.
Gabe Howard: You know we don’t have mental health, physical health, and then a separate stage for heart health, because we understand that the heart is in the body. It’s like everything is combined except for the way that we think and feel. And you’re right, it absolutely drives everything. People who are depressed are more likely to smoke, they’re more likely to overeat, they’re less likely to exercise, they’re less likely to build sustainable friendships or relationships. So that’s a support system. Everything just sort of spirals out of control from these thoughts and feelings that definitely have, a massive impact on our physical safety and surroundings and potentially – I always like to say potentially – the safety of those around us. And the fact that you knew what you were looking for and came in and said it and you still had some pushback is obviously something that we want to change. I like how you said we’re not trying to throw people under the bus or blame them. We’re just saying that we have to do better.
Brett Francis: Exactly. And those nurses and doctors were amazing and once he was admitted, they were great. But a lot of times the nurses on the E.R., ‘cuz he was put in a pediatric ward, they are not 100 percent sure how to handle it. He had a suicide watch nurse that was at his side 24/7 and they’re not entirely sure like what to say to him. They have to either do the steps of calling a mental health crisis team, well they were only in Monday to Friday 9 to 4, and then the psychiatrist wasn’t in until Monday and he worked Monday to Friday as well. So when you really have an emergency on a Saturday night, essentially that system -like I said no fault of anybody involved – but that system is… you gotta be in the hospital for two days or get discharged and come back on Monday or wait six months or a year to get referred to a psychiatrist and specialist. So it’s really frustrating being on the other end of that, being the person who’s experiencing it for themselves or for a loved one, being able to say, look I know that this is happening, especially even when I went and said like, I know what’s happening, still being kind of unintentionally given time to the dismissive and the runaround. I don’t think people were intentionally trying to brush it off. I just think they didn’t know what to do with it. So finally the psychiatrist was called after four hours in emergency.
Vincent M. Wales: Well, I think you’re experienced too also speaks to the tragic shortness of psychiatrists that we have right now. And you said it was in a rural area, which just adds to the problem there.
Brett Francis: Yeah, and then there’s less resources for counseling and stuff in the rural areas where people aren’t in the main center.
Vincent M. Wales: Exactly. Exactly.
Gabe Howard: We will see in a moment after we hear from our sponsor.
Narrator 2: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com, secure, convenient and affordable online counselling. All counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face-to-face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counselling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.
Vincent M. Wales: Welcome back everyone. We’re here with Brett Francis, author of the book Not Broken. So what are, as you put it, mental illness superpowers?
Brett Francis: Well, mental illness superpowers, I actually kind of came up with that through building my career and speaking and things like that, where I realized I can actually use my mental illness to to an advantage here, like it doesn’t have to be always something that cripples me, it doesn’t have to be always something that makes me feel like garbage. It doesn’t have to be always something that I’m judging myself for or other people, I feel like other people are judging me for, it doesn’t have to be a downfall and it doesn’t have to be, so to speak, a fault that I look at. You know we all look at ourselves in the mirror and point out our own imperfections. People with mental illness look into their own minds and point out the flaws that they think they have and they judge themselves for it and we’re out own self-critics. So a big part of what I do is really embracing that mental illness and figuring out what has it brought your life. And initially people say to me like, what? Like what are you talking about? Like I live with depression I’m chronically depressed, how has that brought any benefit to my life? And one of my friends that has chronic depression, I said to her, I said, think of something that it’s brought, like who do you think you wouldn’t be, or what has it brought to your life? Well, it took her hours. So she finally called me back and said, You know, Brett, I’m a paramedic and I care for people for living and I don’t think that I’d be doing that without depression. And I’m really empathetic. So I’m really in tune as well with other people feelings, and I can provide empathy, I can be a good wife, and I can really understand where people are coming from and empathize with how they’re feeling and also pick up on it. And I said, Well what’s not great about that? So for me, one of the first things was, well, if I didn’t have OCD, I wouldn’t be organized enough to do my own thing. I’d be so scatterbrained, I wouldn’t be organized enough to be in business, to run a business, to write a book. You know I’m not saying I don’t struggle with those things. And that I don’t have bad days. But without the OCD, I wouldn’t be a business owner, without my ADHD, I wouldn’t be as creative, without my anxiety, I wouldn’t have the amount of energy that I do and the amount of passion that I do, without my Tourette’s Syndrome, I wouldn’t be who I am or what I am today and doing what I do today. If I hadn’t had the past of my bullying, my substance abuse, if I hadn’t had all those… I mean don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t wish those things on my worst enemy… But those things are what made me the person that I am today, sharing my story, the person that loves to change people’s lives, the person that loves to bring awareness to mental health and fight for the advocacy. I would not be that person had I not had my diagnoses. So that’s what mental health superpowers are.
Gabe Howard: I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. I like the way that you worded it and tried to tie it together. You know, sometimes I go the other way, where I say that there’s no superpower in mental illness. These are just innate skills that a person has that they’re able to use. And when I talk to people that say no no no no I’m turning my mental illness as negatives into positives… On one hand, I want to be like, No there’s no positive about mental illness, but on the other hand, I really appreciate the reframing. And this is why I am so glad that there are multiple voices out there because the reality is I’m kind of a realist, I’m kind of a pessimistic guy and that’s how I choose to deal with my symptoms and mental illness. But other people are more optimistic and they see things differently and they’re going to completely agree with you. And this is why I feel that all voices are important, because if you were the only voice, you’d never connect to me and if I was the only voice, I’d never connect to you. But thankfully, multiple voices allows everybody to feel connected and we’re all on the same side. So, so thank you.
Brett Francis: Thank you. I mean thank you for sharing as well. I would say I’m more on the optimist scale of that. However, my anxiety and I’m sure you guys experience that with your mental health as well, it’s almost like a Jekyll and Hyde type thing where one minute…
Gabe Howard: Oh yes!
Brett Francis: I’m an optimist. And then in a split-second and the snap of a finger, I can be the worst pessimist in the world and all life is going down the drain and I’m a failure and I’m always a waste of time and blah blah blah. You guys know the drill, right? It’s the snap of a finger and it can change in a split second. I can be the pessimist.
Gabe Howard: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Brett Francis: I could be Mr. Hyde, and it could just switch in a flash and it’s very frustrating sometimes. But I’m still back and forth and I yo-yo so much with my mood, with anxiety, that I know that there’s gonna be some sort of snap of a flash and I’m gonna be optimist Brett again in like the next millisecond or half an hour or the next day. You know, I know that that’s coming. So, that kind of gives me a little bit of hope because I’m like well I know that the optimist, resilient, stubborn Brett is in there somewhere, she’s gotta come out eventually. Just poke it a little bit, you know?
Gabe Howard: That is very cool, and I think this is a nice segue into self stigma. Because you talk about self stigma a lot and the different ways that it affects us. So can you talk about that a little bit?
Brett Francis: A lot of people really undervalue what they say to themselves and then they mean anxiety and all mental illnesses like it puts those doubts in your head where it’s like, I’m a failure, I’m not good enough, and it’s continuing to tell you everything that you can’t and won’t, or should haves and could haves. My counselor says, focus on the can dos and the have dones. But that’s not anxiety. So anxiety’s like this pestering… you know the angel and the devil sitting on your shoulder? It’s like the devil is there all of the time, just whispering in your ear that you’re not good enough. And so that’s a big part of stigma. And sometimes it’s easier to control and other times it’s not easy to control at all. You have this way that you feel you should be, and I think as human beings naturally, with or without mental illness, we have that self critic, where we try to make ourselves feel like we should be this or we should be that or we should have more money or we should have a better job or we should be married by now or all these things that we say the should haves. We naturally are programmed to think of that as human beings, like our society seems to always focus on, oh I’m not skinny enough, I’m not, I’m not well-off enough. And so we focus on the negatives naturally as a society. Throw mental health in the mix and we’re really giving ourselves a hard time. And so it’s just this continuing negative Nancy in your head. And so we give ourselves the self stigma where it’s almost turning into a double depression. So I don’t know if you guys have that or not, but like when you’re depressed, you’re like, oh crud, like why am I depressed? I shouldn’t be depressed right now. You get depressed about being depressed.
Gabe Howard: Yeah, guilt.
Brett Francis: I get anxiety about having anxiety. I’m like, why am I anxious right now? And then I start to overthink like why am I just anxious? So it’s anxiety about having anxiety depression or having depression. And it’s really this spiral. If you don’t stop it, it can get out of hand really really fast with that self stigma. So we give ourselves anxiety about having everything or it’s just a double negative. And so that’s a really big role that that my anxiety tried to play in my own mental health is it’s tried to give me anxiety about being anxious or feeling depressed about being depressed. And it just really gets us nowhere. And so we also undervalue the self care in that as well. So we forget to take care of our minds and our bodies while we’re going through that.
Vincent M. Wales: Yeah, sounds about right to me.
Gabe Howard: Not wrong at all.
Vincent M. Wales: Now that you’ve mentioned self care… There are misconceptions about self care out there. Self care, emotional well-being, all of these things. Can you talk about some of those misconceptions?
Brett Francis: I think one of the biggest misconceptions about self care is that it’s selfish. We hear this, you can’t take care of somebody to the best of your ability until you’re taken care of. I mean, why do you think when you go on a plane, the safety demonstration says put your own air mask on first and then help others. So when you are breathing properly your brain is more clear and therefore you can help other people put their mask on, such as children, other people that may need help, somebody that you’re with. But as soon as you have that breath of air and you get that oxygen flowing in into your body, you’re thinking more clearly because you’re taken care of. So that’s exactly the same reason why they tell you to put that mask on first for yourself and then help others. Because if we don’t take care of ourselves, we can’t give others our everything. We can’t take care of our spouses, our children, our friends, and be there for them as much as we could be with our own self care, so we’re giving ourselves or I guess losing not only to self care and all of its benefits but we’re also losing possible potential to be something more to somebody else that we love. Another common misconception would be that, I don’t need self care. I’m good. Everybody needs self care. People with or without mental illness. People with mental illness. We have to find out really what we’re. I mean the value money everybody. No one will be that it’s an on that important one. Another one would be that it’s not that important. Well it really is. And then the one along with selfish is that people think I need to take care of everybody else first and then I can take care of me. And then the last one I guess that I think is most common is that it takes a lot of time. Well no it actually doesn’t. You know talking about meditation, you can do that twice a day for 10 minutes. It’s literally the amount of time that you would spend going and freshening up and brushing your hair or something. So you go and you brush your hair. So instead of going to brush your hair or maybe you need to brush your hair, too, spend five minutes just meditating and breathing, people really think that it takes, oh I’ve got to invest three hours a day into going to the gym, eating right, all this stuff. And so people get very overwhelmed because they’re like, oh I have to start with three hours of self care in order get anywhere. It can start with like five minutes a day. So people really have that big misconception, as well. That’s how I felt, initially when I started reading self help books. After my miscarriage and my depression and suicide attempt, I started reading books. And I went, boy do I have a lot to do. Like, if I want to turn my life around, holy man, like am I ever gonna get there? And sometimes I still feel like that. I’ll go to see my counselor and I’ll be like, oh boy, I just wrote down 18 things that I think that I have to do. And so I’ll take that back to my counselor next time and she’ll be like, Brett, what are you doing? Like, these are not 18 things you have to do. The stuff we talked about is the things you need to check off your list and improve on yourself. There are things where we can eventually get to. Like, that doesn’t need to happen right now. And I’m like, well I’ve got a plan. And she’s like, that’s going to take you like half a working day to get them today. And I”m like, OK. Right. So let’s do the five or ten minute thing. Right. So we all I think do that when you get overwhelmed like, holy man, do I ever have a lot to work on before my mental health improves. Or do I ever have a lot to work on before I lose weight. And people just think that it’s going to be this long, drawn out, tedious task and it’s really not.
Vincent M. Wales: You’re absolutely right.
Gabe Howard: Makes sense completely. Brett, the time just flies by. Before we close out the show, can you tell folks where we can find you?
Brett Francis: They can go to my website at mentalhealthspeaks.com. I’m also on Facebook and Twitter, handle would be @brettspeaksnow.
Gabe Howard: Brett, thank you so much you were a great guest. We look forward to having you on the show again. It was absolutely wonderful. Thank you for being here.
Brett Francis: Thank you so much for having you guys and also for sharing your own personal lives with me.
Gabe Howard: You’re very welcome and thank you everyone for tuning in. And remember, you can get one week of free, convenient, affordable, private, online counselling anytime, anywhere just by visiting betterhelp.com/psychcentral. We will see everybody next week.
Narrator 1: Thank you for listening to the Psych Central Show. Please rate, review, and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you found this podcast. We encourage you to share our show on social media and with friends and family. Previous episodes can be found at PsychCentral.com/show. PsychCentral.com is the internet’s oldest and largest independent mental health website. Psych Central is overseen by Dr. John Grohol, a mental health expert and one of the pioneering leaders in online mental health. Our host, Gabe Howard, is an award-winning writer and speaker who travels nationally. You can find more information on Gabe at GabeHoward.com. Our co-host, Vincent M. Wales, is a trained suicide prevention crisis counselor and author of several award-winning speculative fiction novels. You can learn more about Vincent at VincentMWales.com. If you have feedback about the show, please email [email protected].
About The Psych Central Show Podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar and anxiety disorders. He is also one of the co-hosts of the popular show, A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. As a speaker, he travels nationally and is available to make your event stand out. To work with Gabe, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
Vincent M. Wales is a former suicide prevention counselor who lives with persistent depressive disorder. He is also the author of several award-winning novels and creator of the costumed hero, Dynamistress. Visit his websites at www.vincentmwales.com and www.dynamistress.com.