Over the past decade, researchers have become more interested in ketamine as a treatment for clinical depression. Also known as Special K, its mood-altering effects have long been enjoyed by club-goers. Ketamine is also regularly used in dental practices for certain procedures, because it doesn’t require the heart and breathing monitoring that most anesthetics do.
Research done over the past decade — on both on mice and humans — suggest it could help depression symptoms.
But is ketamine ready for prime-time clinical use in the treatment of depression?
Let’s find out…
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Wonder why these overly cautious doctors never seem to mention the long term damage of depression itself. Especially its chronic form, such as an unfathomable way to live Not to mention the secondary, and severe consequences such as the prevention of satisfying basic social needs, and the big obstacle to self actualisation. Bad enough to prompt some sufferers to have non time tested devices implanted in their bodies or brains, or to undergo ECT, all things that would scare an average person. Some psychotic effects and possible long term risks may not seem so scary to a sufferer in light of those.
I unutterably agree with you fhh.
They are worried about the dependance of Ketamine also? Most drug treatments i have been on have had addictive side affects, which, personally, is a small price to pay for some sense of normality, why should this be any different?
Having been on Ketamine for several years prior – not on prescription, i might add. I was happy. Really happy. Not the self-deprecating, suicidal mess of a person i am now, on legalized anti-depressants.
I feel much more research and development is needed to go into this to make it a legal drug available by prescription.
How were you able to be treated with Ketamine for so long and no longer do it
I discovered ketamine’s impact on depression when I underwent removal of a wisdom tooth under sedation.
I have not been able to find any research trials under way on ketamine. Ketamine, now off-brand, doesn’t offer the potential money-making possibilities to drug companies that do medications that are newly researched, developed, and then put on the market.
I spoke to my pain management specialist about ketamine, and was prescribed a topical compounded form containing ketamine, baclofen, and a few other medications. It comes in a lotion form. The best part about it is that it is the dosages of the medications are small and, because the compound is applied topically to the area of pain, a very minute amount is processed by the kidneys, liver and other organs which can be damaged, over time, by chronic use of other medications.
The ketamine works very, very well, in the compounded form, for musculoskeletal and neuropathic pain (in my experience). I have heard reports of it working very well for migraine and even cluster headaches.
are there any people out there who have had success with the .5mg/kg per body wight ketamine injections, and who once the effects wore off, just continued gettting more injections? i realize the financial cost is generally outrageous, and this keeps most from being able to do this. but are there any out there with chronic major depression and/or anxiety, ptsd etc, who have regularly had the injections for a year or more? and if so, has the ketamine (at the same dose, and at the same frequency of injection) maintained its efficacy? perhaps there’s someone out there who either can financially afford this, or who has special circumstances allowing for regular injections, who could answer this? my example would be that say if ketamine injection works well for 10 days, but by day 11 it generally starts losing its effectiveness for someone, and so then the person uses this as their schedule of injection (.5mg injection every 10 days); does the drug tend to maintain its efficacy? or do people generally need higher doses or more frequent shots over time? or perhaps the opposite; as synapses form and neurons repair (and whatever else the apparrent NMDA antagonism /glutamate modulation etc does), perhaps people over time began to build cumulative, sustainable lasting benefits from the ketamine, and can then began spacing out injections or titrating off until it’s no longer needed? this would of course be the ideal. does anyone know of cases where the drug atleast maintains its efficacy over a year or longer with regular scheduled injections? i am told by a reputable psychiatrist that this can very well be the case. and that it’s only the cost, inconvenience, and potential discomfort (hallucinatory etc) of the injection administration that keeps this from being performed. he tells me that at this dosage and at no closer than 10 days between shots, there is NO reported lab abnormalities, bladder or kidney problems,,,and that the drug generally keeps its efficacy indefinitely (for those who it works for initially). is there anyone out there who could confirm this, or provide any info of known cases that supports this as true? i already know that of course ketamine doesnt work for everyone, but for those who it does help……any data on above questions? any patients recieving regular longterm injections out there?? here you say, ‘run, don’t walk’, but based on what? are there any people out there at these dosage levels who’ve been successfully gettting 10 day (or similar) maintenance injections?
Willie,
We think there are multiple studies out there – but good luck getting your hands on them. Maybe a FOI request since some of the work has been funded by the government??
We have started treated patients for no cost, and will publish as a matter of course our data on patient outcomes.
Also, we would re-iterate Dr. Grohol’s warning that anyone preaching a lifetime use of ketamine is making a pre-mature judgement at this point. We do feel the balance of the information available now indicates that at the maintenance dosages and frequency of treatments there should be no reason for concern. However, there is enough doubt that contra-indicates indefinite use for all but the most intractably depressed.
There is a philosophical question as to whether depression in any severity justifies the potential risk of indefinite use of ketamine? Well, the question has been answered in the affirmative, with little debate, for other illnesses and ketamine. Sufferers of Complex Regional Pain Syndrome receive multiple, extremely high dose ketamine for the rest of their lives. Major burn survivors would probably have the lifetime load of 100 ketamine patients. As a survivor of bipolar depression, my vote is clearly on the side of balanced risk and reward.
Hi Ger
I just went to your website, and saw your ‘treatment plan’ :
-Every other day for three treatments.
-Every day for five treatments.
-Every day for ten treatments with no treatment on Sundays.
I don’t really understand what you mean by these multiple treatments? I have been recieving .5mg/kg body weight intramuscular deltoid injections. The experience lasts about an hour. Then the doctor has me wait at office a while before being able drive. Because I just started, and noticed no relief first few treatments scheduled a week apart, we decided to do 3 times a week for 2 weeks. If then I still notice nothing, we’ll write off ketamine as not for me. If it does help, then move to 2 shots a week for 2 weeks, then thereafter one shot every 10 days or whenever relaose generally occurs. I don’t understand the way your clinic describes the way you do your treatments..what do you mean by these multiple ‘treatments’ in same day? do you mean people get injected at the .5mg/kg dose 5-10 seperate times in the same day? I never heard of that.
As for available studies, all that are available online, I’ve read. But as for ones not online, what do you mean by FOI request? I’m not sure what that is?
And so if the ketamine is found helpful for me, in your experience/knowledge, are you saying that you think .5mg/kg per body weight IM injections once ever 10 days or so should be safe as maintenance for say a year or two? Ideally, it would be great if this actually helps heal synapses etc, so that it can be eventually titrated and discontinued. But people are on cocktails of drugs for longter with many side effects. At this mentioned ketamine dose and frequency of say once every 10 days, do you foresee this as any more damaging then longterm ssri etc? If so, at this dose and this frequency, what are the risks or damage seen. I do knoww all the risks at higher doses, common usage etc,,but find nothing to answer my questions about it as viable maintenance at this dose/frequency. I do suffer chronic major depression on top of a major obsessive disorder and cumulative trauma.
Last, you said you treat patients at no cost. Do you mean you give regular ketamine injections to patients without charging?
Thanks
I began to spiral out of control about 8 years ago. I was a fully functioning and successful geologist and a great marriage and a pretty charmed life. Now I had to look up how to spell depserate twice and check it again. I have gone through 24 different drug treatments, ECT and DBT – name it I’ve done it. I was very suicidal over the holidays and my psychiatrist recommended trying to get into a study group for ketamine. He has no other suggestions which of course is depressing in and of itself. I’ve been on disability now divorced and not much rope left to hang on to.
Any help?
Anything?
Willie, I would rather face a lifetime use of ketamine than a lifetime use of oxycontin. Of course, as they used to say on the car ads, “your mileage may vary.”
When used as a topical form, only very minute amounts make it through the kidneys and liver. Compare that to other pain medications and anti-depressant medications.
i was prescribed kettemin foe painreleaf over a nomber of years i started to have problems with my bladder and the dr could not tell me wat was causing it then they told me i had to stop taking the drug straight away
i have been off the drug fotr about 3 years and i am still having problems i would not wish the pain and discomfort i have had and still am not right on my worst enemy i would tell every body that the relief that you get from the drug is not worth the side effect you get i was taking the drug orraly squrting it under my tung an letting it sok in even thouigh it said do not swallow on the bottle the dr was telling me it was ok
Hi Willie,
The system wouldn’t let me put this as a reply to your message, so I’m posting it as a separate note. Our dosing strategies are different because in some cases we are using an intra-nasal spray and need to titrate up to the blood level where ketamine has efficacy. We have a number of different protocols depending on the mode of delivery and the specifics of the patient.
We do not do intra-muscular injections as this may impact the processing of ketamine – we either do intra-nasal or IV.
A FOI is a government Freedom of Information Act request – the National Institute for Mental Health funded the primary studies done by Carlos Zaratti and anybody should be able to get their hands on them.
As I said in my earlier post, there are pain patients that get many, many times the dosage of ketamine used for depression, and the current treatment plan calls for them to continue for their lifetimes. If it’s not too dangerous for severe lifetime physical pain, how can it be too dangerous for severe lifetime emotional pain?
Ketamine therapy referral please, Phoenix or SW US to treat 4 decades of severe PTSD and depression, social anxiety, agoraphobia….40 mg of Prozac isn’t cutting it!
you are one lucky bear…
…looking to work with someone with your Dx if you are willing to be patient. You have a complex diagnosis that contra-indicates immediate ketamine use. But if we could become comfortable with your stability then we are willing to go ahead with a ketamine trial with someone with depression and co-morbid issues as long as those co-morbid illnesses are stable at the time of treatment.
Suffering as you have been for 40 years with severe PTSD and depression must be untenible. Not being being able to function for so many years deprived you of the simplest pleasures in life.
You said Prozac 40mg is not helping. During these years of pain, hasn’t anyone tried anything else but Prozac? Maybe other drugs before using Ketamine may prove helpful. Only my opinion…..
I’ve been trying ketamine 20mg (.25mg/kg) injected into thigh muscle. The effect has profoundly improved the quality of my life.
When I take the Ketamine, the dissociative feelings start almost immediately on injection, last about 20 minutes, and clear rapidly so that by 25-30 minutes I’m clear thinking. The lack of coordination lasts longer – I’m still slightly uncoordinated 1 hour afterwards. After about 2 hours, I’m good to drive.
The depression clears with the dissociative state, so that I am COMPLETELY out of depression half hour after taking it. The depression then stays away for about 14-16 days.
What this means is that I only have to take 20 mg ketamine once every 14 days.
I am on early days with this trial – I’ve only taken the ketamine 4 times (1 1/2 months) so far. I’m waiting from now until the end of February 2013 to see if the effects remain consistent with time.
Taking the ketamine has no effect on my heart rate, but it does increase my blood pressure from about 120/80 to about 150/100. The blood pressure increase starts almost immediately after taking the drug and lasts for about 40 minutes, though it takes a few hours to settle completely back to normal.
Ketamine is well worth it to me since I get 14 days of clear thinking for 1 hour worth of dissociative feelings – which can be minimised simply by sitting in one place quietly. I always have someone else present, though I have never needed them to intervene.
Will be posting my full experienes and the data I’ve measured at http://www.livingmanicdepressive.com within the next 10 days.
wish i was having such results. i’m getting 50mg (.66mg/kg body weight) IM into deltoid, extreme experience for 40 mins. then that day, next day etc NO better at all. ive had 5 injections so far. i am doing 3 a week for a few weeks before i can it as not hlpful for me. after this, i feel finished. i can’t spend a life of looking waiting 8 weeks to see drugs dont help, side effects etcccc. it’s not a life. this was my last hope as far as drugs go
How can I get in on a ketamine trial? I have been very depressed for over 10 years, and no antidepressants have ever helped me. They just turned me into a zombie. I am recently off effexor, and now am very suicidal. I want a good brain back! I want to try ketamine soooooo much. I just can’t find any way to try it. Help!!! I so wish it was FDA approved for depression. I can’t wait another four or five years.
Any advice on how to get in a ketamine clinical trial? Live in Iowa.
Hello,
We live in the Philadelphia area and my husband is suffering from treatment resistant depression. Do you know of any resources for this in our area?
It looks like there is a doctor in Maine who is actually treating patients?? We need help and can’t take the risk of being in a placebo group. Is that the only option?
Thank you!
Hi,
I’ve been DX’ed with BP1 and over the past 12 years have battled for some kind of stability. I’ve tried all the typical methods of treatment, therapy, and various vitamin/herbal without an outcome of stable living. Two years ago I subjected myself to 18 months of ECT treatment which left me with large chunks of my memory missing including the memory of my oldest daughters birth among other special moments. Today, I’ve completed the elimination of all meds in my system against medical advice because I’m frustrated with the cocktails and their lack of relief. I’m hopeful, but doubt my doctor would approve ketamine treatment or lead me to a study. Please continue the work many are in need of hope.
Thanks for helping me understand the hopes for, and dangers of, Ketamine, Dr. Grohol. I thought all the talk was too good to be true, and it probably is for now. But, as you wrote, research into Ketamine’s use for depression may lead to a derivative which can help. Obviously many are hoping so.
I am bipolar as well as being anxiety stricken. The doctors have tried what seems to be every medication and dosages possible even ECT treatment nothing seems to be working. How can I get on a research trial for Ketamine? It seems to be working for others and I am desperate as my suicidal thoughts are growing increasing stronger.
A decade?!? A DECADE!! My god!! As an SSRI, SNRI resistant person that has suffered from depression on and off my whole life I get so angry at these incompatent researchers in their academic ivory towers that if I had my way I would put them in prison for ten years for no other reason than gross neglect and stupidity. They may get an idea what we go through while they suck at the teat of big pharma…may they all rot in hell….
I have RSD of the left leg and ankle and severe impingement of L4 L5 disc and vertebra degeneration and in 1999 was the victim of a police setup and due to their ignorance in trying to plant evidence I ended up with a 5 kilo keg that had been purchased by the DEA to plant on me !! Inside it read KETAMINE HCL. With a printout from the plant , displaying the melting points and spikes on the gas chromatograph print out for that batch and I didn’t realize exactly what it was or how to use it !! So after the concert I was BEAT and ready to crawl into the closest nest and die !! I suffered so badly I was down to operating my venue only one weekend per year due to police harassment and depression and PTSD from the police ONTOP of the back and RSD !!! I learned to take a tiny tiny amount and grind it to the proper size granual then inhaled it in tiny key bump amounts !!! It INSTANTLY CURED my depression and RSD I was even able to have sex !!!:) This went on for years until it RAN OUT !!! I would assume that is the dirty little secret !!! Most of us that are self treating have researched ketamine HCL. And found that in third world countries there are people that will ship RAW ketamine HCL to the USA for about $950 per KILO then club owners flood there own clubs for not only profit but IT IS THE BEST WAY to NEVER need to dial 911. With heroin and crack , Mephedrone and other drugs that are so easy to get ahold of KETAMINE will get rid of the other drug dealers because the other drug dealers are unable to compete in a market where a PURE gram of ketamine costs $.95 cents and if used slowly and properly thru the day and have the luxury of a spose that you can trust to keep you grounded and firmly in reality then I can BASICALY say like I read that sure it is somewhat addictive but nothing like opiate drugs and when it runs out you don’t DIE. And sometimes just knowing it is in the drawer if I need it is plenty !!! Ketamine is a wired drug short and sweet , recently after not being suicidal but not really careing if I woke up or died and slept MABE 20 hours per day with the exertion of pain and concentration it requires to go on results in chronic fatigue and there is a new cream known as LIPODERM that passes ketamine thru the skin and directly into the damaged area I now apply a small amount to my lower back resulting in total relief within 30 minutes and lasts MABE 12 to 18 hours it is a wonderful thing and used like epidural or trigger point injection you put it on the L4 and L5 area not the back of my leg with sciatic and it covers all that pain but the RSD of the left leg requires a bit Moore to cove and needs the whole calf and foot !! I think I could simply ween myself off OxyContin 160 mg per day and not tell anyone and feel better than on opiates !! But as for the clinical depression it requires a Moore direct rout to the brain !! I think a nasal spray is the answer because I find it hard to dose it JUST RITE EVERY time with the salts !! So I am in hopes that the compounding pharmacy that makes the cream for me can mix a nasal spray if for no other reason than convince the PROBLEMB with the salts is it requires frequent re dose and I have to do it myself like a diabetic on insulin and be careful to not just knock myself OUT or into the K hole !! And previously in 1999 I lost 150 LB. because it suppresses your appetite makes you crave water and the pounds simply fall off because you are able to MOOVE !!! Before this I was bed ridden and could simply not care about anything Plus I have faith in this med for me it worked all the time rite on time That being said there were times I would simply stop and clean up and clean out because exactly like marijuana !! If you smoke a whole bunch today then tomorrow it is not as easy to get high ! !! And ketamine works just like that nasal for the head and cream where you would have epidurals and life will get better almost IMMEDIATLY !! I do not promote drug abuse but for those in need I am sure if you simply put your mind to finding pure Ketamine HCL. Abroad !! I suggest. You simply begin on google and you will probably need to creat an account on INDIANET or allibaba and submit a request for 1 KILO RAW Ketamine HCL. Then sort out the real company’s from those operating a scam !! Most legit factories will send you a free sample of there chemistry and this is looked at as a refined material like kerosene or gas or pigments and plastics plants ! And with a bit of caution and not jumping at the first jerk who asks you to western union or green dot them cash !! I also find most legit suppliers only take a TT money transfer or WIRE to pay them and then you give them a confirmation # and address to ship to and forget it !!! Then about 15 days later the FedEx or ups fella will drop you off a cool. Box of crystallized LIFE in a box. And don’t let anyone scare you the PAIN and depression are the worst side effect of all. And just the ability it instantly provides is clarity of thought and hope because the pain is simply totally gone !! But if I miss a dose of transdermal cream the pain comes rite back then re apply at L4 and L 5 and poof like magic your better in MABE 20 minutes. Not just a patch but a cure. I truly think this scares the hell out of Dr.’s earning a living giving steroid shots because it is Moore effective and who is going to pay $2000 to get stabbed in the spine that is just about to kill you ???? Some treatments are worse than the disease !! So after 10 years of government sponsored self drug trials I am happy to report all is well and life is good again and the only bad point was the MABE last 3 years since I ran out but it was working then and IMMEDIATLY snapped me around 3 months ago !!! It’s a shame we live in a country that advertises freedom but prefers we die young to avoid collecting social security !!! There is little money in a cure that can be purchased for $1000 that will last for years !!! I know I am sure glad I got several KILOS stashed so that will never happen to me again !!! I am 42 year old male who fully intends to ride this wave as long as it lasts for better or worse !!! God forbid I simply retiurn to normal also the Cymbalta has helped like a baby ASPRIN on a migraine ! I demand real treatment for real pain !!! Plus after the start a normal person not looking to be high will self titrate to the lowest dose possible !!! And god forbid you have a SHIT day and do a triple then sit back and go on a tiny vacation with nothing to loose !!! DO NOT DRIVE on this stuff even for fun
. It does screw ya up a bit !! But in a good way not like whiskey or cocaine it is like a pure relied mind body and soul !!!! So be careful of Dr’s walking around with spinal needles that live high on the hog poking holes in your spin leaving steroids behind My back is totaled and the Cleveland clinic has told me that the only hope I have is to MOOVE a lot so the spurring grinds my discs away and I naturally fuse !!! HOW can that plan work when I sleep 20 hours per day and am in agony the other 4 !!????? BEST OF LUCK TO anyone who is needing real relief and being told anything other than good !!! SHAME on the doubters !!! Negativity and depression are like kissing cousins !! Not rite so I was told. Use with caution in a place you feel secure with a person not using it with you !!! 2 people on ketamine together and strange things begin to occure almost like a un heard language !!! It’s real but will make you feel CRAZZY !!!!
I enjoyed that read Gerry, keep self medicating its apparent that for the right and best help you have to find on your own. K is magic, it what dreams are made of
I am bi polar. My usual pattern with major depression is that I may become suicidal, seemingly overnight. I may be at that level for only a few days, then be in a mild depression for a while after that. No anti-depressant medication has been able to stop this pattern. Having a drug like ketamine available to me for use on an emergency basis could be a lifesaver. I would love to have this option, rather that be hospitalized and given ECT.
I have read a lot on Ketamine recently, only because I have been dealing with people who are addicted to the drug. In reading I have been educated about its anti-depressant qualities but I am concerned that it can lead to addiction in some people as it can be readily acquired without prescription – or so I have been informed by my clients.
More research is needed and more support is needed for those who are depressed.
Chris