How does someone become a narcissist, or are they born that way?
It depends, children, especially newborns, demand constant attention but that is a process of survival. Eventually, as they mature, they should learn that they are not the only ones on earth with valid needs. That is where patience, consideration, and other valuable social traits are developed.
In my personal opinion, I see two options a person can take. When there are parents who are extreme narcissists, they will tend to be inattentive to the emotional needs of their child. Those needs might get ignored, ridiculed, shamed, or attacked. In the end the child is hungry for love and attention. Having a love deficit may cause a child to do one of two things:
1) Become an actor in order to get the admiration and attention the child needs. The parents are not safe. They disdain showing neediness and pain. The parents live for appearances. The child is emotionally bleeding and trying to survive because of experiencing emotional neglect. As a result, the child cannot find safety in parents and thus starts to hide to survive. The child experiments with playing false impersonations. They soon find that they can manipulate their parents and others by acting. With this foundation, they embark on the path of wearing all kinds of disguises and masks in order to get anything they want, especially from persons who have love-hunger and seek to please to get it. They become incredibly selfish, unfeeling, and expert manipulators.
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My little brother is very much a brat. Is there a way I can help him become a better person while his mother incessantly dotes upon him without reservation or foresight for future implications on his character?
Candycane,
All you can do is to appeal to your mother. Share with her the article but you’ll have to leave things be if there is not change.
Samuel Lopez De Victoriay, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv
I was married for 30 yrs to an extreme narcissitic man, extremely physically, emotionally, sexually etc… abusive and then went right into a common law marriage to another man just like him for 8 yrs. The last man I was with for the 8 yrs ended up beating me up so bad that I am shocked to be alive today and that happened on Dec. 30 2011. Since then I have been healing mentally, physically and emotionally but have just come to realize that I was with both narcissitic men and still feel like I am able to forgive them both but never want to go back to that type of life again. I am 54 yrs old and what I don’t understand about myself is why I even consider giving either one of the men the time of day let alone being of a forgiving nature? I just don’t understand myself and it makes me afraid for myself? Why am I like this?
Malady,
I recommend you either read up on “co-dependency” and/or join a local “Co-dependents Anonymous” group to get help. There are emotional attachment deficits in your childhood that make you hungry to get love. In of itself, that is a good thing. The problem is that you may not have the ability to recognize what “healthy” looks like in terms of whom to let yourself be attracted to. You might be too naive and trusting. The extreme narcissism smells this like blood is to a wolve. Next thing, you are history!
Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv
Malady,
I encourage you to read up on “co-dependency.” I also recommend you to join a local “Co-dependents Anonymous” support group.
You, most probably, have attachment deficits from your childhood therefore “love hungry.” It is normal to want to fill that vacuum. The problem is when you are good-hearted and naive. The extreme narcissist prowls around looking for folks just like you. Like a wolve, he smells blood. You then become their next meal… He leaves waste behind and never said, “Thank you, for letting me feed on you!”
Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv
I don’t accept the statement “Narcissists die alone and miserable. Don’t’ let them take you with them.”
To act apathetic by choice is hypocritical to me. They mess you up because they lack empathy, and it’s because they’re incapable of it, and not by conscious choice.
“I don’t accept the statement ‘Narcissists die alone and miserable. Don’t’ let them take you with them.’”
It is really not matter of your not accepting the statement. What does that really mean, in this case? The person could possibly be giving advice to those who might be prone to attracting narcissist, particularly people who are very caring and nurturing. As someone who has been in a highly toxic relationship with a narcissist, that is what I wish I would have heard then. Not because I want to ‘look down’ upon them. But because I needed to know that I was not responsible for their behavior, especially since the person was very good at making me feel that way.
While I understand your explaining the differences between one who is apathetic and one who is incapable of feeling empathy, what does it add? It is highly unlikely that your statement will make anyone feel sorry for a person who is narcissistic–empathetic people feel that way by default, which is why they are both equally drawn to one another. The nurturing, caring person is an endless supply for a narcissistic personality. While it is very sad, it is very true.
I agree with the above poster, to say a narcissist will die miserable and alone is not accurate at all. I myself went on an 11plus year process to sensitize myself from being an extreme narcissist. You’re article is very biased. Narcissism is a DISORDER a sickness just very much like clinical depression and bipolar. It’s not a choice for extreme narcissists to behave that way.
Here are a couple of opinions:
http://www.globalpolitician.com/26147-obama-narcissist-white-house-usa
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obamas_malignant_narcissism.html
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=cA9&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1280&bih=869&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=ky76RmCOVqVeQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2318864/posts&docid=2vJhMoDKq42RhM&itg=1&imgurl=http://i28.tinypic.com/jtvtqe.jpg&w=460&h=276&ei=nYchT-PyIcigtwf91KSjCw&zoom=1
Interesting, thank you. My older sister is an N, as is my now demented mother. My sister is 60+ and live alone. Her only daughter has not long known the label for her mother, and is now working hard work through her issues, and putting massive boundaries in with her mother.
I sent her the link below which I think is an incredibly useful site.
http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
Thanks for your article.
I agree with Gerbil. Your statement “Avoid narcissists. Narcissists die alone and miserable” would be considered racist if you were describing someone with a different skin color than your own.
Just because you don’t have a mental issue like Narcissism doesn’t give you the right to condemn someone who does.
Our president is, if anything, the epitome of a Narcissist. I doubt very much he will die alone.
Zella,
A narcissist dying alone does not necessarily have to be taken literally. Of course, many narcissists die with bodies around them. My point is: Do those bodies really care and love this person? I tend to think that many will be saying, “Good riddance!” Something akin to your worst and most selfish boss being fired… a sigh of relief!
On a side note, I find it amusing how almost anything today can paint almost anything as racist or potentially racist. Such are the times…
I disagree very much with Barack Obama being narcissistic.
Vehemently disagree that Obama is a narcissist. All politicians have a degree of grandiosity by nature – which is why they are politicians. Would love to see biased political views kept out of threads. I grew up with a N mom. I know the disorder far too well to label people I don’t agree with narcissists.
Charlie Sheen is a perfect example of a narcissistic celebrity. That’s what drew me to the article.
I really like this blog post. Normally I do not comment but this really caught my attention and there is a lot of truth and fact behind everything you said.
RB
Thank you, RB!
Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv
The extreme case is not nearly as common as more subtle cases I assume. I am in a relationship with someone who needs his ego fed on a regular basis, and can’t see that his behavior is unkind at times. He can also be very loving and a good friend to some (not many). Is there a way to show someone what they’re doing… tryingn to get external validation, etc.? He is wounded when I get critical at all.
Wondering,
Be careful! This may be the tip of an iceberg!
If you proceed… do so with great caution and without giving more of your heart to this person. Put the relationship on hold. Test these areas more. Talk to this person about those wounds/traumas. If he is defensive and will not be honest with you then encourage him to see a competent professional who knows how to help traumas heal. If he will not… say “Bye, bye!”
Avoid becoming his therapist. You’ll get wasted and spent with little left.
Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv
I just wanted to say thank you for your insiteful articles, after much reading, and some more pain from what I have caused my DH. These articles when I read them open mindedly describe alot of what I do to my DH and family. I have tried to leave him many times so that I could not hurt him , but by some grace he has held on to the point of breaking. Now its my turn. Again sincerely thanks, I just hope I can find the help I need before I wind up like my own mother and grandmother.
I too was involved with a narcissistic person. He truly believed that his needs were the only ones of any importance. He has no friends citing that he doesn’t need any. I left him after 2 and a half years of Hell. They start out charming and seemingly caring and helpful. But once they “hook” you then the emotional “beat down” begins. His goal was to strip me of anything that would take my attention away from him, my friends, family, hobbies, pets, everything! He even encouraged me to retire early so I would be financially dependent upon him. When I bucked his attempts to completely control my life and wouldn’t succumb any longer he retaliated by getting me fired from my job (his father was our boss). The key here was that all his life his father had covered for him, he never had to answer for his misdeeds which fed his mental illness.
Thank you so much for this, I’m not sure I would ever have begun to heal from my recent loss of my 11 year relationship had I not read this.
My narcissistic partner has every trait mentioned. I met him at work where everyone knew his stories of how his then wife beat him and abused him. I took him under my wing and convinced him he deserved better which only now I see was playing into his game. I would be embarrassed in social gatherings where he would tell strangers how his parents favoured his brother and neglected him. He would phone and complain to companies about every service he had received even when nothing was amiss.He refused to attend any family function where the spotlight would not be his. He held court with the neighbours telling of his physical ailments, his unbearable job and laterally how badly I treat him!!
He blamed me for our break up saying I no longer listened to him. I was devastated, but now I can see that what was happening was I had become more independent. I had a better job, achieved my degree, and most importantly regained some friends of my own. (I had lost my friends due to his insistence I didnt need them!)
Thank you so much. I am still sad but I can see the bigger picture now and I will be so wary of this kind of relationship in the future.
Destiny had sent a few narcisistic partners to me. I therefore am a very strong individual because I have survived and had become wiser after the emotional beatings from such relationships. Some say any ex becomes labeled as narcisistic. One can only assess what they have been thru after the dust settles and one steps away far from the crime scene before lessons are learned. It’s all in the experience of life, narcisistic human beings are being formed minute by minute; it is a big part of life, it is very human as humans may have made them. Point being congratulations to those who have loved these people and lost part of themselves to put up. You are the unsung heroes. The effect to society of this kind of sacrifice will be undefined but I do know that wars will be more of a daily declaration if everyone were to withold love from narcisistic people. Another name for these stupid people like me who fell for N men: angels on earth. I will continue to pray for you… reqward will come.
A big thank you to the Dr. and the posters here. You have confirmed what I thought about my SO but never was able to find the correct definition. I am talking 14 years that began with the neediness and how “I was the one.” Over the years, it became all about him. If there was a new medical diagnosis in the media, he must have that illness. If there was a new mental condition, he may have that. No friends, isolated, no relationship with his family, no empathy except for himself. I fI was ill I had to suck it up, and hear “I bet I get sick, too.” He has a fear of leaving the house now that he’s retired (I am no longer there, my choice, but I was blamed for not caring or listening.) Although I am putting this behind me, perhaps the following may help others to add things up. His mother was bi-polar, in-out of institutions. In his 30′s he was diagnosed with clinical depression and put on meds. In his 50′s, he was diagnosed with ADHD and that was when the N self truly appeared in every life aspect. His psych became his best friend in his mind and he was put on massive amounts of psych meds-ritalin 10x, 40mgs a day, and to combat the high zanax 15 pills per day, and klonapin for sleep–not to mention daily alcohol and marijuana. No wonder the psych dr. is his best friend! His children (1 a mental health social worker)have no respect for him though he thinks they adore him and he is the best dad in the world. Everyone (there are only 3) have discouraged him from seeing his psych dr. but he said the dr. is the only one who truly knows him. Are psych. dr.’s today more prone to mis-diagnose a N with another illness, such as ADHD? I hope those within a N relationship will continue to reserach…and get out!
Why is it that N’s don’t have friends, and if they do, they control them in some way: money, power, guilt,gifts,etc…Yes, I have read the posts, but I would like this N problem pin pointed. I know someone who is in their early 50′s who does not, and has not had a fun, healthy relationship with anyone their own age for YEARS. What’s up with that??!! It’s a sad state of affairs;/ Thank You;)
This is my story of a friendship with a girl who, after reading this post seems to me to be a victimising narcissist, and how despite my flawed best efforts it ended up a complete disaster- with an awesome rainbow at the end.
For almost 20 years (since the start of high school) I was friends with what I can only describe now as a victimising narcissist. I knew from the start that she lied/exaggerated as she was always pulling some major disaster to get sympathy, claiming she had the latest illness, or going to extremes of the ‘poor me’ claims to get out of being blamed for messing up something. I kept forgiving her for taking my money, putting me down behind my back, ignoring me during my times of need, turning problem situations she had created around to make it seem like it was my fault, because I felt sorry for the hardships she had endured growing up and thought she just needed a solid friend who would give her love, support, forgiveness. Noone else would stick with her very long and I was constantly being asked why I was still friends with her after everything she had done to me. In my mind she needed a friend as much as anyone else and I accepted that this would mean putting up with a lot of crap and cost.
However I was not prepared for just how much, nor for how badly she worked against me behind my back, dividing her new friends up and against me (until they were all also no longer her friends of course)- until they started coming and telling me how different she was and how different she talked and talked about me when I wasn’t around. When we were older we lived in different states. One time she was all upset about one thing or another as usual and I asked if she wanted to bring her son over for a holiday with me for a few weeks. She was so excited but like everytime she turned me down or failed to show up when we had organised something she claimed there was no way her “controlling” husband would allow her to come and bemoaned for an hour about how he would never let it happen. Since this had happened a few times now I decided to call her husband (who I also considered a friend and had known just as long as her) and this time ask him outright why he kept stopping her from coming to visit me. He told me that he was completely unaware of any of my previous requests for them to visit and we went through each situation where she had blamed him for failing to show up or agree to do something and he was completely astounded. He added that he thought it would be a great idea for them to have a holiday.
So the family came over for a holiday and I saw first-hand what life was like living with her. Although she obviously loved her child, everything their young, intelligent and extremely well-behaved son did was “too stressful” for her to cope with. We took her son to the hospital (because the GP was closed on the weekend and only operated through the hospital) to see the doctor because he had the flu and needed a prescription and she immediately got on facebook telling everyone about the drama of waking up to need to rush her poor (practically dying from the description) son to the Hospital (failing to say it was just because the GP was closed on the weekend)and wondering how she would cope with it all (which of course garnered a whole host of sympathy and support as per her usual posts from friends and strangers). She kept telling me “See what I have to put up with?” and I’d be looking at her thinking she had it completely the wrong way around- what an amazingly patient husband and child she had to cope with all her drama- both real and imagined. She complained that her son was too fussy but it was obvious that this was something she had generated in him because the second the dinner plate hit the table he would ask if he had to eat it and she would say “of course not darling, here are some nuggets” and heat some nuggets up- then complain to me about how he would never even try anything and how it was easier to just make him nuggets than to work through all the stress of trying to get him to eat. (Although I later managed to get him to try different foods without too much hassle when she wasn’t around to interfere). Those are just a couple of the examples I experienced from that visit but it was enough to make me politely tell her she needed to stop putting down her supposedly controlling and irratic husband to me, when he had been so patient, helpful and calm with them the whole time I had known them, and particularly during the three weeks they had stayed with me. She would get angry and blame him for every little slight and although he sometimes stood up for himself (which only escalated things) more often than not he would apologise for whatever she thought he had done and actively do something to help (which she complained was never good enough). Both she and he admitted that even though he was the sole breadwinner in the family, he was also the only one who did the housework (it was too distressing for her to do it), amongst other things. Despite having known her, and him, for so long, I was astounded by the extent of things. I also realised how much of the things I had believed she had told me were probably gross exaggerations of the truth in an effort to garner sympathy or support.
Two months later (not having had any calls returned earlier than that) I finally got a call from her, which was her telling me that she had just kicked her husband out of the house and she needed me to be on her side on this one. Which I wasn’t and I wasn’t about to lie about it. She demonised me to her friends, on facebook and to my face for a while before finally deciding it was ok for me to be friends with both of them. To be honest, even hearing both sides of their stories I was more sympathetic to him and him having to deal with her constant custody and restraining order threats, even though he kept paying her medical, outstanding loan and other bills (when he didnt have to since he paid child support AND took care of their son more than 50% of the time). They agreed to joint custody but he ended up taking care of their son half the time he was supposed to be with her because she couldn’t cope with him on her own or wanted to go out and party and having her son there impeded her plans. But then she would whinge about how hard it was to be a single mother with such an unsupportive ex and how she had no money or time and was ‘such a bad mother’
Perhaps because I wasn’t showing her as much support as I used to she started calling me more and talking about how much she needed my support and wondered if she could come visit me with her son again. When she related about how she was struggling to survive financially now I agreed to pay for her and her son to come over. We had some fun but I refused to engage in her negative conversations. Then several days before she was due to go home I said I had to go in to work that day as chrissy holidays were over but I would ask my boss if I could have the rest of the week off and we could take a trip out somewhere nice together. But when I got home she ‘sadly’ informed me that a somewhat distant friend who had recently been giving her time and money had just lost her grandmother so she had exchanged her return flight that I bought her for an earlier flight tomorrow to where that other friend lived so she could go and give her the support she needed and drive her to her grandmothers funeral because “noone” else was available to do it. When I got upset that she had somehow found the extra $150 to change the ticket when she supposedly had no money (she argued someone else gave her the extra money so that didn’t count) that she hadn’t bothered to wait till I got home to see if we could organise something together (she was worried flight prices would rapidly increase in the hour before I got home) and that she hadn’t thought about allowing her 11 yr old son to stay and enjoy the holiday here with me while she went and took care of her friend (she argued her now ex-husband would NEVER have allowed that, although it was the exact same thing I later heard him telling her over the phone when he was telling her off for cutting the holiday short for their son as well). By the end of it she was angry and yelling at me because she thought I would “understand” the extreme situation that someone had died (although yes it wasn’t even someone she knew) and that it was only because she was geographically closer to that friend since she was staying here with me (if she had been at home she said she wouldn’t have even thought about going because it would have been too far- like that was somehow supposed to mean it was right??) and trying to make me feel like I was completely in the wrong for not just jumping up and down and saying how wonderful she was for putting her friend first.
After that her whole family immediately cut contact with me and our ongoing conversations were far more strained than they had ever been and her facebook references always referred to other people as her ‘best’ or most supportive friends. Some time later I started spending more time with her ex and he went and told her that he was interested in me because he didn’t want to create a big scene if anything happened and she found out about it another way. She immediately ceased all contact with me, refused to answer my calls or messages, deleted me from facebook and I got messages from friends saying that she and her family and a couple of her friends were “declaring war” on me, calling me a tramp, saying I had betrayed her, calling me every name under the sun. I was shown some of her quite nasty family’s posts and some posts from friends of hers who I didnt even know, but told it was best I didn’t see any of the ones she wrote. And I hadn’t even done anything. (Although I must say that the end result was that she lost about 40 friends both from facebook and real life, who said they were relieved to stop being subjected to her constant self-victimising- and angry messages about other people, and the funny thing was that she went on later to complain to me about how unfair it was that she hadn’t even done anything wrong but that because her ex decided to like me she was being ‘punished’ by losing so many friends, and she couldn’t understand why he wasnt the one being ‘punished’ for it when he was the one she saw as being at fault)
Several months later my relationship with her ex was developing stronger and I was opening to the possibility that something could happen between us. And then she decided to actually talk to me. She told me how she had literally been throwing up with the news that he liked me, that is had distressed her so much that everyone was always asking her what was wrong and she had had to see a counsellor. I had lost my sympathy for her and just said, well if you had bothered to respond to my messages, take my calls or talk to me before going on a vendetta against me, maybe it wouldnt have gotten so bad and she would have had the opportunity to talk to me about it before anything even came close to developing. But now, I didn’t really think she had any right as a former friend to ask me not to pursue a relationship with him, unless she wanted to tell me that she intended to get back together with him, in which case I would step back and let them try without getting in the way. She laughed at that and declared there was no way on earth she would get back with such a loser. She declared that I was welcome to her “left-overs” and that friends of hers I had never even met had told her that he and I deserved each other (which I took as a compliment cause he was the most sweet, generous and romantic guy I had met, but she intended as an insult because of the way she portrayed him). She swore if I continued on with him I would learn the hard way what he was really like and then claimed the real reason she was so distressed about it was because she couldnt cope with being the one I would turn to when he became all controlling and abusive with me.
The most surprising thing was that she even played me a recording of part of a phone call with her ex in which she claimed that he physically ‘threatened’ her so that I could hear for myself what he was really like. I was astounded by the discrepancy between what she claimed was in the call and what was actually played back to me. She claimed he yelled at her and was rude and mean. In fact he was calm, polite, but firm the whole time, while she was screaming, swearing and calling him names the whole conversation. She claimed he threatened her when what he reiterated after she accused him of threatening her was “No I am NOT threatening you. I do NOT intend to do anything to you. I will not come around to your house, even if you ask me to. I will not say or do anything, I will just stop being so helpful. If you keep trying to hurt Elissa I will stop helping you out so much. I will stop paying your bills when you call me because you have wasted all your money partying. I will stop being there for you at your beck and call, then you will know how difficult life really can get. In fact these are probably things I should stop doing now anyway.” She ended up hanging up on him after calling him a few more profanities when he firmly stated that they should stop talking now because there was too much emotion for a proper conversation, but she had declared before playing the tape to me that he was the one who swore and hung up on her at the end. I don’t know if she was lying or delusional or her friends were just being sympathetic or also delusional, but she also claimed that she had played the tape to her ‘friends’ (people I didn’t know), and that they were shocked at how horrible he was to her on the tape and had comforted her afterwards.
Anyway several years later and I am now married to her ex, and I must say that he is the best thing she ever “gave” me (from her perspective). He is amazing. Flawed, like any person is, but completely open and willing to learn and grow. He cooks, cleans, works, is emotionally open and puts me first in everything, even gives me footrubs and backrubs frequently. I have never felt so loved. NO hint of abuse and far from a controlling person, he involves me as a genuine partner in everything, and we have a great communication basis, where we can agree to disagree when we have to, and have lots of similar but also lots of different interest. And because I actually cook, clean, am affectionate, and constantly surprising him with little gifts, and work too, he thinks I am like a miracle cause his first experience with a wife taught him that a wife just gets what she can from him and gives nothing in return. We still have a lot to deal with because they have to share custody with their son, but we are learning how to put appropriate boundaries in place, and decided when it comes to the boy we expect to be taken advantage of by her, in terms of having to pay more, unexpectedly have him returned to our care, but his interests precede the need to keep her in her place. Life is easier that way- it’s just like having a son/step-son who goes to frequently stay with an extremely unreliable aunt for regular weekly visits, who occasionally pays for some of his things and makes stupid decisions like promising him items that are too expensive or not appropriate for his age then being painted as the bad guys for putting a stop to it. But the sad thing is that even her son is getting old enough to realise what a disaster she is. He absolutely loves her but is more and more stating he prefers to be with us and finds it hard when he is with her and one of her string of boyfriends. If we could get full custody we would- but she has the upper hand on that because of all the orders she put in place on the lies she told about how her ex ‘threatened’ her (and the law just instantly believes the woman without evidence)- But she is stuck between not being able to provide full custody because she cant cope even with half, and not wanting to give up half custody because she thinks that would make her too much of a bad mother and make people turn on her… She is now saying she is trying to have another baby with her currently boyfriend (which is quite odd because a few years ago she swore she had a hysterectomy due to all the problems she thought she had with her uterus).
I have always wondered what was wrong with her- and victimising narcissist seems to fit the bill, to the point of the cause coming from a genuine childhood trauma meaning she is stuck in the self-absorbed child-state. Does it account for all the lies/delusions too?
I read most of the comments above and although I have to agree with most of what is said about NPD’S,
I also wonder how some of you would feel if you had it yourself. Yes I have it! I have been married for 37 years to most beautiful woman God ever put on this earth and why she is still with me is a mystery to me. It’s only recently that I realized I had the problem. I had honestly thought she was the one with the problem. Now, how do I get it under control so she can be happy? I am slowly learning things about myself but I don’t have the answers for a lot of the things I do. She thinks I plot them out but that is just not the case. I have wondered if there is something going on inside me like a computer program that’s running in the background that you don’t see but you see the results on your screen.
Latest case and point, we were in a pet store and she was looking at various items as I walked around elsewhere. I came back to her several times but then walked off again.For some reason I came over to her and said was going to go look at the cats. I don’t even like cats but I thought it would be something to do for awhile. My point is,and this is what I do a lot, is why did I feel the need to let her know what I was doing this time but the others times when I walked off, I said nothing. She felt like I was setting the stage for another round of hurting her. That’s what I evidently do. I set the stage for the knockout. Not physically but I can’t even answer the question why I do it or how I feel the need to set the stage ahead of time. Most of the time,I am not aware I am setting it all up. Sometimes after I have hurt her, she tells me what I have done and I can’t see that I actually did anything until I really stop to think about it and I ask myself, Why did I feel the need to do things like that. I didn’t plan it, on the surface anyway, so whats going on. She has accused me of doing things I don’t remember doing on several occasions and that’s when I get really upset because I can’t understand how I could do something and not remember doing it.
Now,I don’t want anyone to think I feel I am the victim but on the other hand,I don’t want to be this way. I would like to love her the way most people do but it’s not in me. I read the comment above about not letting a loved one get toO close and that is me.She has ask me many times, why when we are getting along real good for a couple of weeks,why I shut down or close off and I don’t know why. So what I read above does describe what I do but now how do I stop closing down on her when we are getting along. How do I stop setting the stage for my next act of hurting her?
I don’t want to hurt her and I definitely don’t plan it or enjoy it but then I try to make it appear as if it was her fault to cover for my problems.I have a hard time admitting these things I do with a councilor, so guess I do it here because you don’t know who I am.
She won’t put up with my actions much longer. We do talk some,but the pain I have caused her makes her angry and I have trouble talking to her when she is mad at me.
I DON’T WANT TO BE THIS WAY!
So back to my original question, how would you like to be NPD?
Yes, we need to protect the victim but what about the NPD who may not even be aware of a lot he/she does or I guess why they do it would be the better subject. I am only aware because of my wife’s research into this and little by little I am seeing it and I know my brother has it worse than me and My mother has it. They will most likely never admit it.
There has to be a logical reason why some of us turn out like this!
I thought I was getting it under control until about 2 weeks ago when we were in a Walmart and she said I was theatrically making it known that I was looking at 2 other women in the same aisle we were in. Another words,setting the stage once again to hurt her. I don’t remember 2 other women in the aisle or what they looked like. That’s not a lie. So why was I doing it? These are the things I am talking about with a NPD. Some of us don’t understand why we do what we do but we are ashamed of it afterwards and feel even worse that we hurt the one/s that mean the most to us or as I read above, the one we feed off of. I hate that term but it kind of fits to a degree.
I actually do love her in my own way and I don’t want another woman but I just can’t seem to find it in me to provide the love she needs. It’s in me, but how do I get beyond whatever blocks stumble me from bringing forth all the love she wants from me?
Anyway, I have rambled enough but it’s not fun being on our (NPD) end either or at least for me.
I NEED ANSWERS!
Thanks for the post strawman. It’s actually heartening to know that people can recognise when they have this issue. It sounds like in being open to accepting it and talking it through with your spouse that you are actually working through the answers you need. Taking responsibility for the damage your actions can do, even though there is an underlying condition that influences your behaviour is an incredibly brave and positive move to make. In my personal (so take it with a grain of salt) opinion, this is probably the answer you need, so stick with it. The process of continuing to work through it will be more beneficial to you than any quick answer.
One of the biggest problems with NPD seems to be that they refuse to recognise their contribution to problems, always looking to blame- even the person they have victimised. While not remembering things that have happened would obviously be frustrating, realising that this happens can help you be open to being told what is going on, which will hopefully help change some of the neurological pathways contributing to the problem- long, slow, difficult, and perhaps never completely resolved, process, but a positive progress nonetheless.
A couple of things…
You may not be a NPD as much as she sounds like a borderline personality disorder. They are very skilled at what is called “projection.” Projection is way an emotionally abusive person projects their negative emotions they have about themselves on to the non abusive partner. Keyword search “projection” for a more comprehensive definition.
Another thing to be mindful of…is that NPDs and BDPs are a match made in heaven and often time attrack one another.
A couple of things…
You may not be a NPD as much as she sounds like a borderline personality disorder. They are very skilled at what is called “projection.” Projection is way an emotionally abusive person projects their negative emotions they have about themselves on to the non abusive partner. Keyword search “projection” for a more comprehensive definition.
Another thing to be mindful of…is that NPDs and BDPs are a match made in heaven and often times attrack one another.
Either way I would highly suggest not accepting her diagnosis and get a second opinion, or a third, from a skilled professional in the area of personality disorders. You may be surprised to find that you don’t have a personality disorder, but instead another issue that attracts you to over controlling-critical busy bodies.
Plus, your writing style and choice of words and phrases doesn’t fit that of a narcissist…but I have been fooled before. Get another opinion and continue to enlighten yourself. Best of luck.
Well, this is a depressing article. I have NPD so apparently I’m going to die alone.
I should commit suicide. What’s the point of living right? (joke)
Seriously, I work with my problems everyday and I AM NOT A MONSTER.
It is not always the parents fault as the article implies. My sibling became narcistic in college, after leaving home. My parents did none of the things in this article. For 20 years now, my sibling has gotten progressively worse, dispite having consequences happen due to her behavior. It is always someone else’s fault when things go wrong or she loses a job, has someone turn on her when they get sick of being used or when she decides to dump them. She lies, steals from family, exagerates, brags, uses and dumps people when no longer useful or controlable. It is like her whole life is an act. when these people she is trying to impress are not around, this happy act stops. I do not know why she needs all this recognition as she has talent and ability. I keep thinking it must be to low self esteem but am wondering if that is just another way of gaining sympathy. She is a master manipulator but we, her family see through it and have called her on it, to try to get her to stop. As a result she has cut us out, unless she needs something. The article says to avoid them, but cutting yourself out of a family member’s life is easier said than done, especially when young children are involved. When we stand up to her, she uses them to get control and frankly they need my parents in their life especially because of her poor example. My uncle is just like her….maybe it is also in a persons genes.
This is all very interesting and yet sometimes I feel this whole diagnosis is just “sour grapes”.
Wow, excellent article. My bf is very charismatic, loved by people around him, but he can be extremely cold…the other day I suggested a repair on the car, he suddenly stopped the car and said, “you don’t like my car? you can walk if you want.” i said, “BABE I WAS JOKING!!” and he just looked at me totally serious. It was so odd. He can also lie super convincingly and doesn’t ever have guilty feelings about things like I do. He never says my name or ever says he loves anything…he told me he can care for someone, but never love them. He said money is his number one love and he doesn’t care about romance. He says once he has money, women will come to him anyway.
He told me I’m too obsessed with my family and they will all leave me anyway. I found out recently that his dad sent him to boarding school at age 10 and he still does not talk to his father. Yesterday I wanted to hug him goodbye and he would not let me…so odd…he said he could not bear to have me close to him since he knew I was leaving. If anything remotely emotional or mushy comes up, he makes a joke about it. The other day i said “i heart u” he said “hate me”. I think of him as a sad boy inside; he is a good person, he goes out of his way to do things for me sometimes, but I think he is just so closed up…how can I make him open up and be more empathetic? I dated him a month and told him we are not working because of this…he was just like “ok” “ok” with no emotion at all. I don’t know what to think.
Ditch him and run. Read your own post back to yourself and pretend it’s your friend who told you their story. You’re about to break up with him and it doesn’t matter to him. People who manipulate love to use that “damaged goods” card.
Apparently I am a magnet for these types of relationships because I have had BOTH types as best friends for many years. When I finally started to work on my own Co-Dependency Issues, it helped me to distance myself from the both of them, set healthier boundaries, and be more cautious about who I let into my life at the age of 55.
A BIG CLUE as to whether they are Narcissists, is that they become pretty upset when you start to establish healthier boundaries with them. THEY DON’T LIKE IT AT ALL.
My current therapist described me as “narcissistically wounded and fragmented” when I asked what her diagnosis was shortly after I started seeing her 3 years ago. In DSM language, she put DDNOS and PDNOS on my insurance form. She is a specialist in trauma and dissociation and used her special training and perspective to help identify my fragments and help me integrate.
I’ve been in and out of therapy for 50 years. I think there are many more of us with narcissism problems than professionals understand. We process the world differently – even if we have a glimmer that there is a problem, so that we present ourselves for treatment, the way that we process and interact with the world is the way that we do it – until we learn something different!!!
A key phrase in the article is this following:
“the clinician must be skilled enough to find the wounds of his inner soul, help heal them, and replace them with healthy self-images and patterns for relational dynamics.”
I am now in a great minority. And I have empathy for (other) narcissists. I know what it’s like to be “taken in” by them (my dad, probably) and I have internal protection for that – I can recognize it and not have to run for the hills.
“Narcissists die alone and miserable.”
That doesn’t sound very kind and wonderful to me. Let’s find better ways to reach and help people with wounded/damaged narcissism – and when they/we see that real help is available, they will come.
omg!just got out of this type of relationship!Im broken hearted and a huge mess a pile of wrecked emotions.how can i heal.also he ensnared my best well ex best friend and they r now in a relationship.they fell in love over the phone in just 3 weeks.now shes living w/ him and they are in a relationship!i am so devistated