Today I have the pleasure of interviewing New York Times bestselling author Eric Marcus on the important topic of suicide. Eric is the author of several books, including “Is It A Choice?, Making Gay History,” and “Together Forever.” He is also co-author of “Breaking the Surface,” the #1 New York Times bestselling autobiography of Olympic diving champion Greg Louganis. For more information, please visit: www.ericmarcus.com and www.whysuicidebook.com.
Question: Why did you write “Why Suicide?”
Eric: When I started work on the original edition of “Why Suicide?” in 1987, I knew that I wanted to write the kind of book that I wish had been available to my mother when my father killed himself in 1970 so she would have known what to say a traumatized twelve-year-old boy. I also wanted to write the kind of book that would have been useful to me when I was 21 and just beginning to talk with a therapist about my dad’s suicide.
I had so many questions and didn’t have a lot of answers. And I wanted to write the kind of book I could hand to my grandmother, who struggled for the rest of her life after my dad’s death with guilt and shame over his suicide. I also assumed that many people searching for answers about suicide have a short attention span like I do and preferred concise answers to their questions, which is why I wrote the book in a question and answer format and kept it short.
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My sister-in-law killed herself for the same basic reason that 90 percent of all people kill themselves. She was mentally ill.
The reasons people choose to die are mulitple, it is a far more complex issue than the above claim.
Mental illness is a “popular” claim here in the US. I sincerely doubt its verity.
Harold A. Maio
Harold, yes, it may be true that 90% of people commit suicide because of mental illness. Your view of multiple reasons stem from the fact that mental illness is something that people live with daily. Thus, it is popular because the root cause of the multiple reasons stem from having the mental illness itself. Livng with it (mental illness) is like living with a disability – but people still do succeed because they are willing to succeed, willing to not let the mental illness affect them, unless it becomes severe enough to impair the person’s ability to live a lifestyle regular to them.
Suicidal thoughts occur when the person’s view of his/her life is grim or negative, and eventually they will believe it. They convince themselves with sketchy evidence that it’s the ‘only’ way for a variety of reasons. After a period of time, they think that they are better off dead because their view is that they are unworthy to live. However, not all suicidal people take this view. Others do so because of terminal illness(es). Some might even do it as a dare or a joke and may actually die from ‘unintentional suicide’.
I know how being suicidal feels like because I’ve went through it. It sucks. Some might even say it’s like living in your own version of hell, a prison where you’re there 24/7, perhaps for years or decades.
I heard that one in five persons with a bipolar disorder ends their life by suicide. I thought it was just that they got very depressed. Now I suspect it is because while they may be feeling good, they that it won’t last.
A terminal solution to resolvable problems. Not one hundred percent applicable, but over 90%. So, if you try to intervene with a suicidal person, the odds favor there could be a satisfactory alternative. But, add alcohol/drugs, and the ability to reason and accept such alternatives: minimal. Death is the final choice, most patients who survive the rationalization that suicide is a valid option will tell you that they didn’t see there were other choices.
Remind people who voice suicidality this. And, if you are seriously planning to take your life, go to the funeral of a suicide first. That is the legacy you are leaving.
Harold — Not sure if you are denying the existence of mental illness (in which case why are you on the site?), or that it pertains to suicide. There are probably other reasons for suicide (end of life issues, untreatable pain, etc.) but one can hardly debate that the vast majority of suicides are due to a person’s lack of ability to cope, for what ever reason, with life’s pain and pressure, and, believe it or not, this lack of ability can lead to unimaginable psychic pain. That, to me, is mental illness.
I’d like to reply to the comment made by Harold above. I agree that there are multiple reasons why people choose to end their lives, but I think that the majority of these reasons can connect back to mental illness in some form. Several conditionals and illnesses in our lives, whether drug addiction, ADD or bipolar disorder, come with varying levels of depression. And depression can be deeper than one thinks. In fact, often times who we consider to be “regular” individuals just going through a rut are actually individuals going through slightly milder forms of depression.
Depression itself is a form of mental illness. It can stymie the release of needed chemicals and cause increased release of other less productive chemicals causing internal chemical imbalances that can seriously affect one’s brain. This can cause changes in personality, rational thinking, self esteem and weight which can unfortunately enhance the cycle until it becomes a never-ending loop.
Depression is not necessarily something that a person can come out of on their own or with just a few sessions of therapy. There are sometimes deeper issues that are overlooked in DIY or basic therapy methods. This is why most professionals recommend a holistic treatment approach which covers mind, body and in many cases spirituality.
It is not at all surprising to me that mental illness is claimed as the cause of a lot of suicide-related deaths in the US. Employees are overworked, underpaid and under-appreciated, the US has a large percentage of divorced individuals or those having marital issues, our food supply has so many additives that cause physical health and chemical imbalance issues and the majority of our population has financial debt issues. Any one of these factors could contribute to pretty heavy depression levels but many Americans suffer from a combination of these factors at once.
I think that the sooner we start to recognize suicide for what it really is (as Eric discusses in his book and interview), the better we as health professionals can be at diagnosing mental illness and offering holistic solutions.
This is what was going on with me when I felt suicidal. The pain was unbearable, honestly, the greatest pain I had ever felt and there was nothing and no one there to stop it. There was no morphine drip to make it go away, no one to see how crippling it was. I was living with a brain that was so ill that it was trying to convince me that everyone in my life would be better without me. What great strength and courage it took for me to stand up to my brain and tell it NO! It was, for me, like living in a body with a complete and evil stranger. An entity that was determined to take me out of this world and I had to fight with every fiber of my being to win. People don’t really understand that depression and other mental illnesses have the potential to become terminal. That is really what happens to a person who commits suicide – they have lost their battle with their disease and no one can really understand unless they have kept company with a mind that causes such great agony and all you want is for someone or something to make it all stop. It is so complicated to understand – especially when you are feeling that way. You just can’t understand why you feel so bad and why you can’t fix it yourself.
Hi Shelia
Just recently found this site. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing what it feels like to be suicidal. Depression physically hurts me. Like something twisting and squeezing my insides,chest,heart,somewhere so deep I dont know another word but…guts, or soul maybe.
Jodi,
There was a time when I was so afraid to be alone with myself – note I said WITH and not BY myself- that I had my husband remove the bottles of ASA from the house. I feared for my life. It is not a good place to be in, not being able to trust the thoughts that your brain creates and having no one around to help you turn those thoughts around. Glad I’m still here.
There is so much more research that has to be done regarding suicide. My husband committed suicide, Jan 2008. I thas been extremely hard for me and our daughter. When they ask how he died, sometimes I am embarrassed to say how. The other problem is that people (his family) blame the closest to that person that it is their fault.I was married for 25 yrs,knew them for 30 yrs. To this day they will not talk to me and said I made him do it. It has taken a long time to stop asking myself the question, was it my fault.
Mental Illness is real and it seems nowadays ever one I talk to has someone in their family who died or who has tried to do this.
Michele,
I am so sorry for your loss. Your husband “lost his battle with depression.” Or what ever other mental illness he was suffering from. Somewhat like people loosing their battle with cancer. People just don’t understand how difficult it is.
Joel MD posted ” (suicide) A terminal solution to resolvable problems.”
Right. Purely hypothetical situation: You’ve been depressed for almost your entire life, you don’t find solace in religion, your family has abandoned you, psych meds are either ineffective or intolerable, you can’t keep even a job at McDonalds because of your moods and temper and you are so poor that you can’t afford to self medicate with booze or pot, not to mention that you have become a psychopath from all the years of bullying at school, the abuse you suffered at home and the dehumanization that you went through while in psychiatric care…
Tell me Joel MD, how exactly does one resolve that problem? Is it ‘all about’ finding the right meds and getting some therapy? But what about when those things have tried and failed?
Joel MD, people don’t attempt suicide because they are concerned with the grief of mourners. People commit suicide to leave the pain of life itself behind when they cant take it anymore. Suffering, endless wanting and not having, the life of a social outcast, that is the legacy that our hypothetical person leaves behind. That’s something people who give lip service to suicide prevention don’t want to talk about.
Suicide prevention is to stop those impulse suicides when little Timmy finds his GPA at Harvard is slipping and thinks dear old Mom and Dad might get disappointed, and has himself a drink and thinks about putting a gun to his head. Those are the suicides people want to prevent.
But who wants to talk about the suicidal feelings of a nearly homeless person with a criminal rapsheet and mental health case file two inches thick?
Who could honestly step forward and say, “Now, now, my good fellow, suicide is the cowards way out. Think about all the mourners at your funeral. It’s all just temporary. Besides, you have such a bright future (of dumpster diving, sleeping in shelters and trading foodstamps for cigarettes) ahead of you.”
A wise person said “Suicide happens when pain exceeds the resources to cope with pain.”
My daughter suffered schizophrenia for 15 years. Good psychotherapy and medication helped for a few years. The state we lived in (Victoria, Australia) then stopped psychotherapy for “economic” reasons. Her psychosis worsened, her paranoia became permanent, she was eventually resistant to all medications but suffered their grave side-effects. Her talent and creativity as a fine photographer gradually disintegrated, she was too ill to have a social life. She killed herself, by train, eight years ago. Never for a moment have I seen this as anything but something she had to do.
How long can one suffer a totally lost life without dying? Only ask youself that! My life has changed for ever, my heart is no longer whole, but after years working at recovery I am now an advocate for those I see as Anne’s legacy to me,
the severely mentally ill (schizophrenia, bipolar 1 disorder and/or severe clinical depression) and we work together to help those who have survived until now.
I honestly think that suicide is the worst thing that can happen to a peraon. before contenplating they most have ben in severely mental disorder, panic attacks, anxiety attacks, agoraphobia. we should look for early signs and symptoms befor it gat out of hand.
Death is inevitable. No one escapes this reality. As humans, we go to great lengths to control our environment and the course of our lives. Why is there shame in controlling how life ends? Who is to claim that 90% of people who take their own lives are WRONG to do so? You are not those persons living their reality. It is a choice. It is one more decision controlling personal outcomes.
Some people commit suicide because they realize that they have reached their tolerance for pain, discomfort, sadness, illness, or whatever else is too unbearable to face without relief.
I have found in my conversations about this is that those who feel it is wrong, the act of a sick mind, a waste, or anything of this genre, actually think it is wrong and don’t understand because it is a choice they would never consider for themselves–and they project that value judgment onto everyone else, no matter how severe the situation.
Suicide is not a frivolous act, although for some it appears impulsive. It is a choice, an issue of control, just as remaining alive is a choice. Why judge? Too many people believe that those who commit suicide really, truly, actually, absolutely wanted to live. No, that’s a projection of one’s own feelings about living and dying and rarely reflects what the suicidal person was experiencing. Do you really know what’s better for someone whose life you are not living?
If you’ve never been there, never been close, never given yourself permission to go, then you cannot possibly understand what a person is thinking when making the decision to finish life on one’s own personally-determined terms.
I am not mentally ill, but I do believe in the ultimate right of the individual to control end-of-life decisions, even when I disagree with that choice.
I have been suicidal and I have been through a suicide, so I’ve been through both sides.
First, and foremost I can understand why people choose to end their life. I truly believe it’s all about the constant pain (whether it be physical, emotional or mental) they are in. People with pain lives in their own hell everyday.
Pain will eventually wear one down. I know. My last suicide attempt came a little over 2 years ago…and one of the reasons why I attempted was to end both the physical and emotional pain I was having to deal with. Unless someone is dealing with pain issues by having support/talking to a friend, family or a professional, they are alone….and that’s not a good place to be. I was having to deal with the physical pain of knee arthritis (since then, I’ve had it replaced and it’s good)….and having to deal with the emotional pain of having to watch my mother’s physical/mental health deteriorate to the point of she’s dependent on someone to help her out now.
Depression can cause all sorts of physical ailments to happen. I know that to be true….
On the other side of suicide–I had a roommate to commit suicide that was a wonderful person too! She had schizophrenia; however, she was a wonderful person to know. She really and truly didn’t know how to cope with pain.
The two above mentioned leads me to believe that when one takes their life, they are DEFINITELY not thinking clearly….whether it’s about financial, physical, emotional pain is one of the reasons why people commit suicide.
I do have mental health challenges. I face those daily. Some days are better than others….and some days well, things look so bleak that I even go back to visit the old and familar tunes!
You know, Jane, sarcastic and demeaning rhetoric does not win you respect and authority on a position. The way I read your retort, do you cheer these people on to their premature demise!?
To fellow readers who either struggle with this issue or have been victimized by it from others, let’s be a bit tough and candid here: in many examples of suicides, it really comes down to pure selfishness and lack of appreciation of others trying to be supportive. That comment is not applicable to all cases, but, if you try to be receptive to others wanting to help or are one of those trying to help a suicidal person, here’s the other candid comment: silence is truly death!
When you rationalize and validate killing yourself, you are closing a door that really can be reopened. Just don’t let the Janes of this world jade you into drowning in the pessimism!
By the way Jane, been to the funeral of a suicide and stayed long enough to feel the pain of the survivors? How many versions of “I wish I could have done more” can you hear before it hurts?
That is the point. Perhaps explain yours in a bit more respectful way!
Hi, Dr. Joel,
From my experience only, as I can only speak for myself and not others because every person has their own experience which is unique to themselves, I will agree that some suicides are selfish. The people who break up with a partner and then quickly kill themselves over it is mean and spiteful. People who kill others and then themselves are cowards. However, as you know there is a different kind of suicide. The suicide that is brought on from years of suffering, some times not even years. We each have our varying degree of pain tollerance. Mine happens to be quite high and I can deal with pain, usually in silence – I just work through it. But I have to say that the pain from my depression was insufferable. The pain from a C-section was nothing more than a paper cut in comparison, then again they were giving me demerol for it. No such luck taking pain killers for my depression they don’t exist.
What I really want to explain here is that for me, and many other people, the depression convinces you that you are worthless and you talk yourself into believing that no one wants to be around you, no one wants to help you – why would they want to help such a pathetic loser? And so, we often suffer in silence and we don’t reach out for help. Sometimes it comes down to being afraid of what people will think of us – will they run away? Will they understand? How could they? When I couldn’t understand what was happening to me I felt that I couldn’t explain it to anyone else. It was up to me and only me to survive this “thing” that was happening to me and it is a very frightening place to be in. Putting aside the fear and the negative self talk that keeps us from reaching out- there is very often little affordable (long term) help out there and honestly, family and friends are not trained to help the depressed person. “You just need to go for a walk – clear your head.” “Shake yourself out of it.” So many well intentioned comments and some not well intentioned do not help. When I went for a walk I just got more angry because it just gave me more time to think.
Anyway, not all suicides are selfish acts and I truly look at them with pity because it means that one more person has lost their battle. So many of us fight like hell to stay alive, but so do cancer patients – that doesn’t always mean that they win.
I hope you don’t misinterpret what I have written – there is not anger or sarcasm at all and I’ve strictly written from my perspective.
Hope you are having a sunny day, I am.
Dr. Hassman, I think your voice is an important one, and one I would not have wanted to hear in the past. The only thing that kept me on the planet was thinking of the anguish I would leave behind, and I couldn’t bear the thought of inflicting that pain on anyone. But, at the same time I hurt so badly I couldn’t imagine going on living like this the rest of my life, either. So, it was this constant battle.
The gift my therapist gave me was to keep me tethered to the reality that my suicide would devastate the people who cared for me. I tried desperately to distance myself from that fact, and if my therapist had not been persistent, but gentle about it, in keeping me connected with that reality then I would have been in serious trouble. The interesting thing is that once I took the option of suicide off the table, the period where I said, okay no matter how bad this gets I’m not going to end my life, the less obsessed I was with suicide. I was kind of like the alcoholic who went to therapy, but kept a bottle of booze in the house “just in case.” As long as suicide was an option, well, it was an option. I didn’t pull myself up by my bootstraps and I didn’t magically make the depression disappear, but removing the option of suicide forced me to cope. I found I was stronger than I thought.
People want to hang on to the option of suicide. It brings comfort. But, it also keeps them stuck.
With a nuclear family and so-called “friends” who always expect me to commit suicide (that way, they could always say “well, it was to be expected”) instead of doing one single thing to help me, I’ve become more and more convinced that at least some suicides occur because there really, truly is no other option and one finally simply gives up. That way, the family and friends are off the hook, and the “suicidal” person can finally find peace.
Thank you for the above comments. I speak out at the posts about suicide here because I really want to dispel myths and misperceptions about this issue, suicide. When you listen or read people who rationalize and covertly support suicidal agendas, it worries me. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule and situational experiences, but I just offer the readers this little analogy:
If you theoretically come to 2 doors in your travel of life, and there is a guide there telling you, “if you go through door A, then you have an 80% likelihood of getting to your next intended destination, or through door B you have a 20% likelihood of getting to where you intend.” So, which door do you take if you know the choices? I still meet people who sarcastically or cluelessly choose Door B. Fine, fight the odds, and if you are basically lucky to succeed, congratulations. Just be aware the next 4 who follow you will not follow your path successfully.
If you choose treatment and make the effort to surround yourself with those who are stable, supportive, and sensitive to your needs, then you have the greater chance of surviving the pain of suicidal thoughts. Hence, Door A. Door B does not have this scene to greet you when you walk through. So, try to know your doors.
Dr. Hassman,
Quick question, and I’m not being nasty – have you every suffered from depression? Just curious.
I do not believe that is a quick question, but a lead in. It would be nice to walk in everyone’s shoes to know exactly how it is, but, when you walk next to numerous people in the same shoes, you get the gist of the gait.
When you treat people with repetition and familiarity, you get to know the beast. And, having helped numerous people with suicidality, you don’t start rationalizing that suicidality is a viable option, until you have exhausted the choices that responsibly preceed the terminal choice.
Having dealt with people at this and other sites that get rather abrupt in legitimizing suicide as an option rather early on in the process, perhaps someone would like to risk explaining to the silent readers why you are so quick and firm in defending this choice. And we will be paying attention to the simple fact that you are still alive to state your position. Which, is good, until proven otherwise.
I didn’t say that I agree with suicide. I think that people lose their lives to it. I don’t believe that it is always a choice to take your own life. Having lived the fight to stay alive I can understand how the pain can be too overwhelming to deal with and as I have mentioned we all have our varying degree of pain tolerance. I have been fortunate to be strong enough to have survived my depression, again and again. I also have kids, so I was able to find my “reason” for living – I vowed to not let my depression take my life for the sake of my kids. There are too many people in society who fall through the cracks in the system and are truly alone they don’t know where to go. They can’t even see a door let alone be able to chose which one to go through. I don’t think people should be blamed for not being able to hold onto their lives, to not have the insight needed to stop the disease from progressing. Suicide victims shouldn’t be raked over the coals so to speak for their actions. Do we judge people who die from other terminal diseases? Do we get angry with someone who has lost their life to cancer and blame them for not trying hard enough? No, we don’t. Many people with mental illness try very hard without success. Even psychologist’s have committed suicide – you would think they would know better, wouldn’t you? Do they not know which door to go through, where to seek help? And yet it still happens.
I am alive for many reasons – perhaps the biggest one is I’m stubborn as hell and I will not be defeated by it.
Let me correct that first sentence – of course people lose their lives to suicide – I meant to say that they lose their lives to their mental illness through suicide. And although I don’t approve of or encourage suicide, I do understand it.
Dr. Hassman,
Now that I have a moment where I am not so distracted, let me further explain what I have survived. I have lived through 12 major episodes of depression in 17 years. Most people would never know that I have felt suicidal – I hide my truth very well. I am very functional. I have never attempted suicide but about 7 years ago I started to cut myself. I had enough sense and experience to know that I had better reach out for some help before it went too far – it took me 18 months to recover from that depressive episode and more support than I’ve ever needed before. I have survived my depression without the use of medication for 98% of my experience. I do not discuss my mental health with my family and my friends do not know about it either. I live in silence for the most part with it and it is difficult. I wish that I could, without fear of prejudice, tell people about the hell that I have survived because I am amazed that I have had the strength to survive. I have done a lot of inner work and I am quite insightful – thankfully.
What bothers me about suicides is the lack of compassion that society has for these poor souls who didn’t make it. I feel sad for the person who commits suicide because it means that they couldn’t find the strength to find the help they needed. They were alone in their most desperate moment and no one was there to reach them. Silence is deadly, no doubt about it. But I am still curious as to how mental health professionals, who know more answers than I do, end up taking their own lives? Does this not say something significant about mental illness? That perhaps all the logic in the world, along with education isn’t always enough to save a life? That the pain that the thoughts of an ill brain create is just too much for some people?
And what exactly do you mean by your last sentence “Which is good, until proven otherwise.” I could interpret that to mean something which I don’t think you mean. Is it good that I’m alive until I prove that it’s not good that I’m alive? Hmmm.
But, no, over all I do not support the idea of people killing themselves. I would encourage people to find any reason they can to hold on to their life – one minute at a time then for five minutes, ten minutes, an hour, a day, a week and so on. Hold on with every fibre of your being unitl the fever of the moment breaks. The sun will come out again, things will get better, whether you believe it at the time or not. Even if you don’t believe that you make a difference in anyone’s life – you do. There is someone in this world that would miss you if you were gone. Even if it is a dog, cat, fish, someone you speak with daily even for a moment. AND, only hang with people who will support you and build you up. Ditch the people who just want to knock you down in life.
This is my last comment at this thread about suicide, and all I can offer is that to understand suicide is to try to make sense of senseless things. I have met a true few who have presented that to end their lives was the only choice, having had exhausted other options. People with terminal illnesses mostly, and one who seemed to relate there was no one who was supportive, sympathetic, and sensitive to their needs.
Well, until such person met with me and I offered my hope and faith that there could be further options to consider, and this person did. The person dropped out of treatment about 9 months later, but not because of death, but for move out of the area I worked in.
I appreciate and respect your commentary here, Sheila. I hope you are active in your efforts to continue to stay healthy and hopeful, and as I type here, the song “I hope you dance” that is playing seems applicable.
Never settle for the path of least resistance. And give faith a fightin’ chance. What appropo lines to finish at this thread!
Yes, great song, so is Breathe – which reminds me of a function that I take for granted . I do agree, although the conversation has been interesting, it is time to say so-long. I do have faith, by the way, it has been one of the things that has helped to keep me alive. I will continue on, I have my difficult moments but I know which door to go through.
Nice chatting with you!
Take care, be good and say a prayer for all the sad souls.
Sheila
My husband commited suicide .It is the worst thing any one could do to a wife and children. For the person that thinks its a choice.He ruined our lives forever.He always made it through every drepression for 16 yrs of marriage and their were always better days.He was always stronger when He made it through and happy to get through it .He loved us very much.He lost his battle from 1 stupid moment of angzity.And we never get to be a family agian.He will never walk his girls down the alse at their Wedding .Or take his son fishing again. And its really a waist when the phscoritrist knew what he was strugling with but did not even tell me his wife.So now 3 kids have a dead dad.
Get help never end your life.. God always is their .You do not want to keep hurt going trust that God will bring you through and not waist your pain.
Societal acceptable double standards between men and women lead to the high rate of suicide by men. Whatever happens it is the man’s fault, even if she does something bad or wrong. A woman ussually gets excused while a man gets blame a double share.
OK, just one example in the general male-dominated suicide problem:
A lot of those suicides result from divorce, most particularly from false abuse allegations for women to really “win BIG” at divorce. It is documented that between 85% and 90% of divorce abuse allegations against fathers are FALSE ABUSE ALLEGATIOMS, simply used to get protective/restraining orders advised by lawyers and domestic violence coalitions for moms to be assured a sure “win.” But, everybody looses in the end this way, esp the kids.
I disagree….Our world has changed especially in a time where people need people more than ever. Real, true support is not there for the lonely or sick, the people without hope in their lives. Families are broken apart, people are separated from “true” support that requires “UNCONITIONAL LOVE” Now I am now saying mental illness is part of the problem but true loniess, friends & family who care about what they drive, how big their home is and how much money they have is why people look down at those who don’t and its too scary to help them, they might just have to look at their own empty lives. Secrets are coming out today, people are struggling with some horrible issues in their lives and put this economy, no jobs and the baby boom generation what do you expect. Why do suppose daily we hear of mothers kidding their kids. LOVE, LOVE for each other is becoming instinct when we need it most !!!!
SHEILA…I am suicidal right now…My precious son completed suicide when he was 23 years old, and that morning of March 1st, 2007, when my husband and I found him…My life ended , too. I KNEW Philip had been depressed, bi-polar, mentally ill(Maybe all of the above!?) for about three years, ever since he moved out of our home. We did ALL we could to keep our child alive, by sending him to a psychiatrist (who turned out to be totally unqualified by telling us he would never kill himself because he was a genius…Guess what? Intelligent people get ill, too DOC!) But, Philip would not switch Drs, and after he is 21, what do you do? He came home every day from DELL where he worked, because he wanted to just talk to me….even though he could have a hot free lunch at work…He was worried about my depression which I would try to hide from him, and just listen for hours to him.
You explained the feeling of being so depressed, and having a sick brain SO WELL!
HOW did you have the motivation to tell your brain to SHUT UP? I feel like my other only living son and his wife who live only 6 hours away spend so much time with their church and mission work…that I do not even know him anymore. They will be going to CUBA for three weeks, but they will only come here for 2 days a year for Christmas…Is that what God would really want? And I think it was you who said people tell you to just “Go outside and take a walk” and when my best friend/well meaning sister tells me that…I feel like she is just writing me off…And like someone said…that just gives them MORE time for their brain to think about what they will say in their suicide note, and HOW they will kill themself.
I thought I could hold off until my parents passed away…
TELL ME HOW!
I do NOT want anyone to go through the “MaMa’s heartache” that I go through every single moment of my day!!
I really do not think of myself as a SELFISH person. I TRY (even when I have been in bed for days…) to get up and send off birthday cards or presents I have bought online to those I really do love…
But, when you hate life so much…ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!
How did you get though your suicide feelings, so that you could tell that Dr. to have a sunny day, like you were??
Help!
First of all I just want to say to Philip’s MaMa I’m SORRY! I unfortunately can say I understand the 24/7 pain that you are going through. My wonderful husband also took his life in 2008 and I can honestly say I will NEVER be same. People say it will get easier with time, the only thing me and my 4 kids find that it gets harder and harder each day. I still find myself forgetting to breath and thinking he’s going to walk through the door any minute. I just hope we can find peace someday and anyone that’s been touched by suicide
knows that our loved ones didn’t do this to hurt us.
TakeCare
Phillip’s MaMa
I am so glad that I happened to catch your comment in the side bar of another blog that I was reading and I am so sorry that I didn’t catch it sooner – I would have returned faster if I had known.
And I can’t express how deeply sorry I am for your loss and the hell that you are now experiencing. I hope you come back to check here and read this.
So, my advice to you about your suicidal thoughts -DON’T DO IT! You have the strength inside you to survive this – I know it doesn’t seem possible, but you asked me how I survived. How did I find the strength to tell my brain to shut up? How did I tell it that it was wrong when it told me that my family would be better off without me? I found something else to live for. When you can’t find the strength to live for yourself live for the sake of someone else until you get to the point where you can do it for you. Don’t think for a moment that the loss of your life will not be missed – just look at the impact of your son’s passing.
It’s not easy – but as a very kind psychiatrist told me – it’s okay if you are having a hard time right now. Give yourself permission to feel bad – because this too shall pass (it doesn’t seem like it – but it does) I fought with it for so long thinking that if I didn’t fight my depression it would win and that was not an option that I wanted to entertain. If you can find a mindfulness meditation program in your area then I strongly suggest you attend – it has done wonders for me and although this past year has been tough on me I am no where near the depths that I was in before. I have learned (still learning actually) to be more accepting of myself and I can see it coming up from the shadows where before I always seemed to be blindsided by my depression and it was devestating.
Repeat to yourself that you have the strength and the courage to win and that you WILL NOT let this disease take your life as it has your son’s. Isn’t one death to mental illness in the family enough? Don’t let it win. I am stubborn so that helped too.
I don’t know if I am reaching you – I hope you get this. But for me I am thinking about whether your son would want you to end in the same fate as him? What kind of life would he truly want for his mother? Stay strong for his memory – live life for him, experience things that he was unable to. No child would wish that their parent continue to suffer after their passing. It is obvious that he loved you – he came home to you and confided in you – that is tremendous trust.
What also helped me – because I didn’t share with others except my therapist – was I journaled and I drew. Sometimes I just had a blank piece of paper and a big fat red or black crayon – the kind that kindergarten children use and I just poured my rage onto that paper through the crayon – by the end I was tired, crying but did feel some emotional release – kind of like punching a pillow I suppose.
Just keep holding on – one minute at a time. One minute leads to five minutes to 20 minutes and so on. Give yourself credit for getting out of bed in the morning. Anything that you can achieve is a monumental step forward and just know that for every tiny accomplishment you make – I’m cheering for you.
If you like art galleries or museums or garden centres – whatever doesnt’ demand of you but fills you with comfort – that is what you do and don’t listen to people with negative -crap – comments. Don’t share your life with people who are intent on making you feel more depressed.
Wishing you all the best and a sunnier tomorrow.
Sheila
I agree with Jane. Nobody wants to talk about that side of it. I once saw on a message board someone who posed the question of whether or not suicide prevention is selfish. Who are we to tell a depressed/ill person not to end their suffering and instead to stay alive for the rest of us, knowing that there is no cure?
You’re right. Not everybody finds the right meds and gets counseling. If they do, it works for a while and then fails. Mental illness is as physical as a cold or a tumor, but society is still in the business of blaming it on a flaw in personality and thinking that numbing it with medication and circumventing it with cognitive restructuring is the answer if we just got better at it, got better drugs, learned new things about how the brain works, etc.
Not so.
With as horribly as we treat the mentally ill in society, it’s really no damn wonder people kill themselves rather than seeking help. A mental health diagnosis can follow you for the rest of your life, further pushing you into despair when your dreams get taken away from you because nobody wants to associate with “one of those people.”
Mental illness is a physical disease! “Those people” deserve just as much, if not more, love and care as anyone else.
At age 12, I watched my Father stick a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger. I am 63 years old now and it still was as though it happened yesterday. I suffer from depression (on meds) and PTSD. When I have these episodes like I am having today…I think of my daughter and grandchildren. I could never put them through what I have been through for the last 51 years. My Father had a horrible childhood. He was a violent alcoholic threatening my Mother and myself with guns. I saw him beating my Mother when I was 8 years old (I just come home after 2 years being in a tuberculous sanitarium) and I helped her get him off. I was relieved when he was gone. He was the greatest when he was sober which wasn’t often. Everyone liked him. My parents were married 15 years.
There was no help back then and suicide/mental health was a very shameful thing, my Mother never talked to me about it. I thought I could have a relationship with my Mother now, but she had to have a man in her life. One of them fondled me…one day she believed me and the next day she didn’t.
While she was dying from her second bout with breast cancer she told me many things she shouldn’t have. She didn’t have 2 (illegal) abortions that I knew about (my parents took me with them because I was too young to be home by myself) but there were 3 others before I was born. They just knew I was going to be a boy and my Dad promised her he would stop drinking so no abortion that time. MY GOD, I would have given anything to have had siblings! As a child, Mom told me she was afraid that my Dad might kill them in one of his drunken rages or a baby would cry and wake him up which would be an excuse to get drunk. I understood because he killed several of my parakeets when they woke him up. I understood why my Dad was the way he was. This is only a small portion of my younger life, I did not have a childhood.
My life as a child was horrible, just like my Dad’s. I think of my daughter and grandchildren. I could never put them through what I have going through for the past 51 years if I were to commit suicide.
This is my depression and my post traumatic stress disorder. Even with the love I have for my family, it still can be so very very difficult at times.
I don’t think people understand what suicide really is. Those who say it is the coward’s way out are ignorant words that I would get banned for saying on this forum. Death happens all the time, and sometimes the person is so empty that they just cannot stand it any longer, or the pain is too great to go on. Too many people assume things about depressed people that make me so angry I want to scream. they have no idea what we go through each day, hurting, emptiness. What is cowardly about choosing one’s own way to die? Don’t say you understand unless you have the same freaking issues. Unless you consider suicide as an option to all this pain and emptiness over 7 times a day. Unless your childhood was ruined by horrors that may not have even existed outside of your imagination.
~Bipolar adolescent