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	<title>Comments on: A Review of the DSM-5 Draft</title>
	<atom:link href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/</link>
	<description>Dr. John Grohol&#039;s daily update on all things in psychology and mental health. Since 1999.</description>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-733415</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 14:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-733415</guid>
		<description>I am not an expert on either the old or new DSM, however I have a daughter and was told some years ago that she &#039;may&#039; have PDDNOS.  I decided NOT to diagnose her.  This was a decision I really thought about long and hard and went with my instincts as her mother.  I now believe it really was the best decision, and she would fall off the spectrum once the DSM-V comes out!  I have seen some parents abuse the current DSM and diagnosis for their child for funding their own pockets, taking advantage of the system, when other children and families are needing much more.  I hope this give more help to families in need, not just for children under seven and early intervention, but much longer and stops focusing on children who don&#039;t need it.  My daughter is doing really well now, both academically and with her friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not an expert on either the old or new DSM, however I have a daughter and was told some years ago that she &#8216;may&#8217; have PDDNOS.  I decided NOT to diagnose her.  This was a decision I really thought about long and hard and went with my instincts as her mother.  I now believe it really was the best decision, and she would fall off the spectrum once the DSM-V comes out!  I have seen some parents abuse the current DSM and diagnosis for their child for funding their own pockets, taking advantage of the system, when other children and families are needing much more.  I hope this give more help to families in need, not just for children under seven and early intervention, but much longer and stops focusing on children who don&#8217;t need it.  My daughter is doing really well now, both academically and with her friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Frida</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-726735</link>
		<dc:creator>Frida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-726735</guid>
		<description>The American Psychiatric Association has never shown such ignorance in any subject than autism. For example, in the DSM-5, they acutally put flapping hands and complex body movements into ASPERGER diagnosis, as if this is  joke or a major mistake, because any sane person knows that this is a hallmark trait of AUTISM, not Asperger&#039;s disorder. How stupid are these people? And then you don&#039;t even find behavioral issues in the autism diagnosis, which is a major, major hallmark trait of moderate to severely autistic people&#039;s struggles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American Psychiatric Association has never shown such ignorance in any subject than autism. For example, in the DSM-5, they acutally put flapping hands and complex body movements into ASPERGER diagnosis, as if this is  joke or a major mistake, because any sane person knows that this is a hallmark trait of AUTISM, not Asperger&#8217;s disorder. How stupid are these people? And then you don&#8217;t even find behavioral issues in the autism diagnosis, which is a major, major hallmark trait of moderate to severely autistic people&#8217;s struggles.</p>
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		<title>By: addict</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-718653</link>
		<dc:creator>addict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2011 05:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-718653</guid>
		<description>Regarding your take on &quot;behavioral&quot; addictions, I would disagree. I prefer the word &quot;process&quot; addictions, since I see this as more descriptive of the problem. This from someone who began treatment for substance abuse back in the 80s when behavioral addiction was a relatively new idea. When recovery from alcoholism didn&#039;t do the trick, I eventually had to explore my other addictions. I learned the most from my inquiry into issues around money, which isn&#039;t even mentioned. Workaholism is endemic, and that particular manifestation just scratches the surface. In recent years I&#039;ve had to acknowledge my overuse of the internet and insatiable appetite for knowledge. Really, it&#039;s about time the DSM recognized what we in recovery have known for decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your take on &#8220;behavioral&#8221; addictions, I would disagree. I prefer the word &#8220;process&#8221; addictions, since I see this as more descriptive of the problem. This from someone who began treatment for substance abuse back in the 80s when behavioral addiction was a relatively new idea. When recovery from alcoholism didn&#8217;t do the trick, I eventually had to explore my other addictions. I learned the most from my inquiry into issues around money, which isn&#8217;t even mentioned. Workaholism is endemic, and that particular manifestation just scratches the surface. In recent years I&#8217;ve had to acknowledge my overuse of the internet and insatiable appetite for knowledge. Really, it&#8217;s about time the DSM recognized what we in recovery have known for decades.</p>
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		<title>By: Oxidopamine</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-715792</link>
		<dc:creator>Oxidopamine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 04:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-715792</guid>
		<description>I have some disagreements and agreements with Dr. Grohol&#039;s review and the DSM-V revisions. 

First, I disagree that inclusion of paraphilic coercive disorders will lead to lighter sentences. Although Dr. Grohol is correct that offenders can claim this as an excuse, lawyers and judges are going to thoroughly question it each time it is brought up because it labels the behaviour but doesn&#039;t indicate the person is not/less guilty. If this were so, many criminals who have anti-social personality disorder would have lighter sentences simply due to their psychiatric illness. It also won&#039;t lead someone to being deemed, &quot;not criminally responsible due to mental disorder&quot; (NCRMD, as used in Canada) or &quot;not criminally responsible due to insanity&quot; (term used in parts of Europe). 

Second, I disagree with Dr. Grohol&#039;s view on paraphilic coercive disorders because it doesn&#039;t exclude someone from going on the sex offender registry, which is criticized as being punitive on its own. 

Third, I disagree with DSM-V&#039;s inclusion of self-injury as a psychiatric illness. It seems to just clutter the diagnosis up because people who self-injure likely already have a mental illness. I feel it should be replaced by being a specifier for mental illnesses instead of its own mental illness. I feel that if someone were given this diagnosis, their GAF score would be lower. 

I also disagree with the DSM-V&#039;s &quot;mild neurocognitive disorder&quot;. While Dr. Grohol presented a good argument, my reasoning is a bit different. Particularly, the DSM-V seems to be pushing itself into the field of neurology because these neurocognitive disorders have a purely biological basis and cannot be remedied by psychotherapy. For example, &quot;Minor/Major Neurocognitive Disorder Associated With Prion Disease&quot; cannot be remedied at all by psychotherapy. It&#039;s like saying Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease can be remedied by psychology and psychiatry, when the onset, progression and treatment is purely biological at the brain level. The DSM-V is extending its arms into areas psychologists and psychiatrists are not trained in. 

On the other hand, I do favour the inclusion of behavioural addictions. There is considerable research to indicate they exist. There is also a good deal of social experiences with it, however, I do wonder whether it will justify medications for such disorders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have some disagreements and agreements with Dr. Grohol&#8217;s review and the DSM-V revisions. </p>
<p>First, I disagree that inclusion of paraphilic coercive disorders will lead to lighter sentences. Although Dr. Grohol is correct that offenders can claim this as an excuse, lawyers and judges are going to thoroughly question it each time it is brought up because it labels the behaviour but doesn&#8217;t indicate the person is not/less guilty. If this were so, many criminals who have anti-social personality disorder would have lighter sentences simply due to their psychiatric illness. It also won&#8217;t lead someone to being deemed, &#8220;not criminally responsible due to mental disorder&#8221; (NCRMD, as used in Canada) or &#8220;not criminally responsible due to insanity&#8221; (term used in parts of Europe). </p>
<p>Second, I disagree with Dr. Grohol&#8217;s view on paraphilic coercive disorders because it doesn&#8217;t exclude someone from going on the sex offender registry, which is criticized as being punitive on its own. </p>
<p>Third, I disagree with DSM-V&#8217;s inclusion of self-injury as a psychiatric illness. It seems to just clutter the diagnosis up because people who self-injure likely already have a mental illness. I feel it should be replaced by being a specifier for mental illnesses instead of its own mental illness. I feel that if someone were given this diagnosis, their GAF score would be lower. </p>
<p>I also disagree with the DSM-V&#8217;s &#8220;mild neurocognitive disorder&#8221;. While Dr. Grohol presented a good argument, my reasoning is a bit different. Particularly, the DSM-V seems to be pushing itself into the field of neurology because these neurocognitive disorders have a purely biological basis and cannot be remedied by psychotherapy. For example, &#8220;Minor/Major Neurocognitive Disorder Associated With Prion Disease&#8221; cannot be remedied at all by psychotherapy. It&#8217;s like saying Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease can be remedied by psychology and psychiatry, when the onset, progression and treatment is purely biological at the brain level. The DSM-V is extending its arms into areas psychologists and psychiatrists are not trained in. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I do favour the inclusion of behavioural addictions. There is considerable research to indicate they exist. There is also a good deal of social experiences with it, however, I do wonder whether it will justify medications for such disorders.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-713905</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-713905</guid>
		<description>In regard to the substance abuse vs. dependence issue, my comment about those under twenty-one with whom I dealt always had an &quot;abuse&quot; problem for they were breaking the law. This dichotomy has always been vague to me when dealing with adults as well as younger patients. I agree it should be dropped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regard to the substance abuse vs. dependence issue, my comment about those under twenty-one with whom I dealt always had an &#8220;abuse&#8221; problem for they were breaking the law. This dichotomy has always been vague to me when dealing with adults as well as younger patients. I agree it should be dropped.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaye</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-713657</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2011 19:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-713657</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really curious - quite a few of the proposed changes impact on my current diagnoses. There&#039;s a considerable reorganisation of dissociative disorders and the new trauma and stressor related disorders category. I&#039;m curious where I might end up (complex post traumatic stress and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really curious &#8211; quite a few of the proposed changes impact on my current diagnoses. There&#8217;s a considerable reorganisation of dissociative disorders and the new trauma and stressor related disorders category. I&#8217;m curious where I might end up (complex post traumatic stress and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified).</p>
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		<title>By: fleurblack</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-712157</link>
		<dc:creator>fleurblack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-712157</guid>
		<description>looked in vain for Penophilia - an extreme and unhealthy interest in other men&#039;s penises - but surely it should be in DSM5 to explain the tearoom culture and the desire many men have for contact with a penis but cannot bring themselves to be openly active in the homosexual milieu of the gay bars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looked in vain for Penophilia &#8211; an extreme and unhealthy interest in other men&#8217;s penises &#8211; but surely it should be in DSM5 to explain the tearoom culture and the desire many men have for contact with a penis but cannot bring themselves to be openly active in the homosexual milieu of the gay bars.</p>
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		<title>By: fleurblack</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-712156</link>
		<dc:creator>fleurblack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-712156</guid>
		<description>now that most of Europe has dropped the mental illness label from the wish to change sex shoudl the homosexual penophilics at The Clarke/CAMH such as Blanchard and Cantor be told to forget the idea that transsexualism is a mental illness and is really just a simple intersex problem?
In the UK a transsexual can transition from living male to female and get a certificate from the Government to that effect and then get a new birth certificate showing they are recognised at being the opposite sex at birth - which is only logical once the reality of transsexualism is grasped.
The DSM will thus be unworkable in the UK and other European countries that allow for this new birth certificate process.
Blanchard&#039;s continuing insistence of pathalogising transsexalism is just ego protective smokescreening to make sure that no-one coudl imagine a tall guy like him is really a classic closet homosexual with extreme penophilia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now that most of Europe has dropped the mental illness label from the wish to change sex shoudl the homosexual penophilics at The Clarke/CAMH such as Blanchard and Cantor be told to forget the idea that transsexualism is a mental illness and is really just a simple intersex problem?<br />
In the UK a transsexual can transition from living male to female and get a certificate from the Government to that effect and then get a new birth certificate showing they are recognised at being the opposite sex at birth &#8211; which is only logical once the reality of transsexualism is grasped.<br />
The DSM will thus be unworkable in the UK and other European countries that allow for this new birth certificate process.<br />
Blanchard&#8217;s continuing insistence of pathalogising transsexalism is just ego protective smokescreening to make sure that no-one coudl imagine a tall guy like him is really a classic closet homosexual with extreme penophilia.</p>
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		<title>By: pyschenthusiast</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-673037</link>
		<dc:creator>pyschenthusiast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 02:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-673037</guid>
		<description>I for one am please to see the inclusion of self-injury as its own disorder. It&#039;s about time it be recognized that self-injury may not be a symptom in some cases, but may actually be an illness in itself. Self-injury is such a compex issue that goes unseen, and maybe this will help clinicians better recognize and properly treat the problem. It will at least create a road map for clinicians to navigate when coming up with a proper diagnosis and treatment plan.

I do think, however, that self-injury should classified as part of the Impulse Control disorders rather than be given the label Non-suicidal Self-injury; a label that will only create a worse stigma that is already out there and will deter people from seeking help.

Recognizing self-injury as a disorder is an important break through, and this is a step in the right direction, but I think more research needs to be conducted to ensure that the acknowledments of the disorder are correct. Will someone who hurts or thinks about hurting his or herself almost everyday seek help if they may be told they suffer from NSSI, or will they benefit more positively if they explain to a clinician that they&#039;re urges are unctrollable and they hurt themselves in order to provide relief which may suggest to the clinician that he or she suffers from Impulse Control Disorder Self Injury type?

It will be interesting to see in a few years what the outcome will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one am please to see the inclusion of self-injury as its own disorder. It&#8217;s about time it be recognized that self-injury may not be a symptom in some cases, but may actually be an illness in itself. Self-injury is such a compex issue that goes unseen, and maybe this will help clinicians better recognize and properly treat the problem. It will at least create a road map for clinicians to navigate when coming up with a proper diagnosis and treatment plan.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that self-injury should classified as part of the Impulse Control disorders rather than be given the label Non-suicidal Self-injury; a label that will only create a worse stigma that is already out there and will deter people from seeking help.</p>
<p>Recognizing self-injury as a disorder is an important break through, and this is a step in the right direction, but I think more research needs to be conducted to ensure that the acknowledments of the disorder are correct. Will someone who hurts or thinks about hurting his or herself almost everyday seek help if they may be told they suffer from NSSI, or will they benefit more positively if they explain to a clinician that they&#8217;re urges are unctrollable and they hurt themselves in order to provide relief which may suggest to the clinician that he or she suffers from Impulse Control Disorder Self Injury type?</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see in a few years what the outcome will be.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Harris</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-665998</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-665998</guid>
		<description>This is a great move on the part of the APA, long overdue, but I agree about that &quot;slippery slope&quot; of behavior addictions - nearly any activity done beyond moderation could qualify!  And why is pathological gambling the only behavior included?  I agree that is a valid addiction, but why is it the only one?
  
-Ryan Harris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great move on the part of the APA, long overdue, but I agree about that &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; of behavior addictions &#8211; nearly any activity done beyond moderation could qualify!  And why is pathological gambling the only behavior included?  I agree that is a valid addiction, but why is it the only one?</p>
<p>-Ryan Harris</p>
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		<title>By: vampi</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-654797</link>
		<dc:creator>vampi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 17:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-654797</guid>
		<description>now everything a person does is a disorder..........a kid cannot run around and act out because he might be diagnosed with A.D.D AND GIVEN A PILL THAT SITS NEXT TO OPIUM AND COCAINE....what is wrong with the world?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now everything a person does is a disorder&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.a kid cannot run around and act out because he might be diagnosed with A.D.D AND GIVEN A PILL THAT SITS NEXT TO OPIUM AND COCAINE&#8230;.what is wrong with the world?</p>
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		<title>By: JestAWonderin'</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-643109</link>
		<dc:creator>JestAWonderin'</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-643109</guid>
		<description>There is a report circulating which says that Poul Thorsen, who worked on and/or contributed to DSM revisions, has been lying about his academic affiliations and has (apparently) absconded with a substantial amount of money, grant funding.

Have you seen these reports?  (Try www.ageofautism.com, if not.)  Can you comment, or do you know if this is true or not true?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a report circulating which says that Poul Thorsen, who worked on and/or contributed to DSM revisions, has been lying about his academic affiliations and has (apparently) absconded with a substantial amount of money, grant funding.</p>
<p>Have you seen these reports?  (Try <a href="http://www.ageofautism.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ageofautism.com</a>, if not.)  Can you comment, or do you know if this is true or not true?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Review: The DSM-5 debate &#171; Psych Maven</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-642205</link>
		<dc:creator>Review: The DSM-5 debate &#171; Psych Maven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-642205</guid>
		<description>[...] to begin There is a general all-purpose review on PsychCentral which may be of interest. It gives and over view of the most contentious issues and according to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to begin There is a general all-purpose review on PsychCentral which may be of interest. It gives and over view of the most contentious issues and according to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John M Grohol PsyD</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-642157</link>
		<dc:creator>John M Grohol PsyD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-642157</guid>
		<description>Autism has been a part of the mental disorder manual for decades, so that is nothing new.

I think the use of &quot;spectrum disorders&quot; is to acknowledge that mental disorders are often not &quot;black and white&quot; -- that they occur on a spectrum of behavior, some of which may be milder than others -- but still troubling and life-altering.

People don&#039;t need a new disorder to over-prescribe; that&#039;s happening quite nicely right now. So I&#039;m not sure the new version can accelerate an already-significant trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Autism has been a part of the mental disorder manual for decades, so that is nothing new.</p>
<p>I think the use of &#8220;spectrum disorders&#8221; is to acknowledge that mental disorders are often not &#8220;black and white&#8221; &#8212; that they occur on a spectrum of behavior, some of which may be milder than others &#8212; but still troubling and life-altering.</p>
<p>People don&#8217;t need a new disorder to over-prescribe; that&#8217;s happening quite nicely right now. So I&#8217;m not sure the new version can accelerate an already-significant trend.</p>
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		<title>By: FreakUnique</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/02/11/a-review-of-the-dsm-5-draft/comment-page-1/#comment-642155</link>
		<dc:creator>FreakUnique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=7792#comment-642155</guid>
		<description>So now people on the Autism spectrum are mentally ill as well as diseased and in need of a cure? I&#039;m sick and tired of people trying to &quot;cure&quot; me because I&#039;m &quot;ill&quot; in their minds. I&#039;m far from ill and I would refuse to be treated as such.

Remove the Autism Spectrum from the MENTAL ILLNESS MANUAL since it is a GENETIC VARIATION THAT ALL SPECIES HAVE AND NEED TO SURVIVE THE EVER CHANGING PLANET.

It seems the creators of this &quot;manual&quot; are just lookin for an excuse to shove more pills down more people&#039;s throats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So now people on the Autism spectrum are mentally ill as well as diseased and in need of a cure? I&#8217;m sick and tired of people trying to &#8220;cure&#8221; me because I&#8217;m &#8220;ill&#8221; in their minds. I&#8217;m far from ill and I would refuse to be treated as such.</p>
<p>Remove the Autism Spectrum from the MENTAL ILLNESS MANUAL since it is a GENETIC VARIATION THAT ALL SPECIES HAVE AND NEED TO SURVIVE THE EVER CHANGING PLANET.</p>
<p>It seems the creators of this &#8220;manual&#8221; are just lookin for an excuse to shove more pills down more people&#8217;s throats.</p>
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