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	<title>Comments on: Bremner&#8217;s False Claims about Postpartum Depression</title>
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	<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/</link>
	<description>Dr. John Grohol&#039;s daily update on all things in psychology and mental health. Since 1999.</description>
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		<title>By: Perinatal Mental Health: a source book for health professionals &#124; Health Source</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-634487</link>
		<dc:creator>Perinatal Mental Health: a source book for health professionals &#124; Health Source</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-634487</guid>
		<description>[...] Bremner&#8217;s False Claims about Postpartum Depression (psychcentral.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bremner&#8217;s False Claims about Postpartum Depression (psychcentral.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Holford</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-631413</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Holford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-631413</guid>
		<description>Ivy wrote:
&quot;...If you read these comments from the bottom up, you’d never think we were having a discussion about PPD. Especially the deeply philosophical–and circular–points of this guy Matt which fail to reverberate with me, probably due to the fact that he’s not talking about women and PPD at all, or the Mother’s Act for that matter...&quot;

Not circular...  It&#039;s a spiral - we may return to the same place, but it looks different, the second time around, because it&#039;s viewed from a slightly different perspective.

Anyway, if you want something other than circularity, or the semblance thereof, then you would have to have an objective, because if you don&#039;t have a reference point, how will you know whether or not you&#039;re progressing in the right direction?  And if you can&#039;t be sure that you&#039;re headed in the right direction, there seems precious little point in moving off the spot.

Matt

PS Unless somebody&#039;s going to reveal that they have experienced what they take to be PPD, then it would be difficult for any of us to discuss it, given that we would have no knowledge of it, and nobody to ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivy wrote:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;If you read these comments from the bottom up, you’d never think we were having a discussion about PPD. Especially the deeply philosophical–and circular–points of this guy Matt which fail to reverberate with me, probably due to the fact that he’s not talking about women and PPD at all, or the Mother’s Act for that matter&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Not circular&#8230;  It&#8217;s a spiral &#8211; we may return to the same place, but it looks different, the second time around, because it&#8217;s viewed from a slightly different perspective.</p>
<p>Anyway, if you want something other than circularity, or the semblance thereof, then you would have to have an objective, because if you don&#8217;t have a reference point, how will you know whether or not you&#8217;re progressing in the right direction?  And if you can&#8217;t be sure that you&#8217;re headed in the right direction, there seems precious little point in moving off the spot.</p>
<p>Matt</p>
<p>PS Unless somebody&#8217;s going to reveal that they have experienced what they take to be PPD, then it would be difficult for any of us to discuss it, given that we would have no knowledge of it, and nobody to ask.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Holford</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-631410</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Holford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-631410</guid>
		<description>Katrin wrote:
&quot;Matt, could you give an example? kat&quot;

Sorry, I&#039;ve kinda lost the thread a bit...  An example of the brain solving a problem via &quot;background processing,&quot; for wont of a better description?  Or serendipity?  Bear in mind, of course, that I use these words as near-facsimiles of the concepts that I&#039;m trying to explain - they may mean something different to you.

Anyway, for most people, the issue is in identifying what the problem actually is.  You&#039;d be surprised how few have even the vaguest idea.  Or perhaps you wouldn&#039;t.

To answer your question (by not answering it!), I could give an example from my own experience, but it would be largely meaningless to you - something that I had regarded as insurmountable and massively problematic might present itself as trivial, to you.

Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katrin wrote:<br />
&#8220;Matt, could you give an example? kat&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, I&#8217;ve kinda lost the thread a bit&#8230;  An example of the brain solving a problem via &#8220;background processing,&#8221; for wont of a better description?  Or serendipity?  Bear in mind, of course, that I use these words as near-facsimiles of the concepts that I&#8217;m trying to explain &#8211; they may mean something different to you.</p>
<p>Anyway, for most people, the issue is in identifying what the problem actually is.  You&#8217;d be surprised how few have even the vaguest idea.  Or perhaps you wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>To answer your question (by not answering it!), I could give an example from my own experience, but it would be largely meaningless to you &#8211; something that I had regarded as insurmountable and massively problematic might present itself as trivial, to you.</p>
<p>Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Shelly</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-631363</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-631363</guid>
		<description>Thanks for you post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for you post.</p>
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		<title>By: kimbriel</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-630917</link>
		<dc:creator>kimbriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630917</guid>
		<description>I had the Queen Bee of all postpartum disorders- postpartum psychosis- and I STILL don&#039;t think that justifies screening ALL women for what happened to me.  It&#039;s 1 out of 1000 who gets this.  They caught it two weeks postpartum and I was committed and drugged (and separated from the baby for three days).  I am thankful for the two weeks I had with him and that I was able to breastfeed during that time- something I lost when they gave me drugs that weren&#039;t safe for breastfeeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the Queen Bee of all postpartum disorders- postpartum psychosis- and I STILL don&#8217;t think that justifies screening ALL women for what happened to me.  It&#8217;s 1 out of 1000 who gets this.  They caught it two weeks postpartum and I was committed and drugged (and separated from the baby for three days).  I am thankful for the two weeks I had with him and that I was able to breastfeed during that time- something I lost when they gave me drugs that weren&#8217;t safe for breastfeeding.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-630868</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630868</guid>
		<description>Evelyn,
I am very sorry to hear about your experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evelyn,<br />
I am very sorry to hear about your experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Katrin</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-14/#comment-630835</link>
		<dc:creator>Katrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630835</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Evelyn, for sharing your personal experiences, at least these particular ones.
You are right, we can never, ever assume anything about another person, and who has won the suffering contest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Evelyn, for sharing your personal experiences, at least these particular ones.<br />
You are right, we can never, ever assume anything about another person, and who has won the suffering contest.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Pringle</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630832</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Pringle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630832</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t tell me what I have or have not been through. I lost a planned baby at 5 months and after another planned pregnancy, my 3-day-old infant died.

As much as you would like to believe they are, you&#039;re experiences are not unique in the history of childbearing. 

You&#039;ve simply been brainwashed into believing they are by the profiteers running this show, who want to lock in life-long customers.

After reading over the various postings on your website Ivy, I believe that to be true because you come across as very sincere in your wanting to help other women.

I do not think you are a &quot;knowing&quot; participant in the Mothers Act disease mongering campaign in the same category as say Katherine Stone and Lauren Hale, and that&#039;s why I&#039;ve never written anything derogatory about you or your website in my articles.

I&#039;m not about to fault somebody for being duped by quite possibly the most rapid gang of disease mongers that I&#039;ve come across in my 5 years of investigating these types of profiteering schemes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t tell me what I have or have not been through. I lost a planned baby at 5 months and after another planned pregnancy, my 3-day-old infant died.</p>
<p>As much as you would like to believe they are, you&#8217;re experiences are not unique in the history of childbearing. </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve simply been brainwashed into believing they are by the profiteers running this show, who want to lock in life-long customers.</p>
<p>After reading over the various postings on your website Ivy, I believe that to be true because you come across as very sincere in your wanting to help other women.</p>
<p>I do not think you are a &#8220;knowing&#8221; participant in the Mothers Act disease mongering campaign in the same category as say Katherine Stone and Lauren Hale, and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve never written anything derogatory about you or your website in my articles.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not about to fault somebody for being duped by quite possibly the most rapid gang of disease mongers that I&#8217;ve come across in my 5 years of investigating these types of profiteering schemes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630804</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630804</guid>
		<description>Again, until you&#039;ve been in my shoes and experienced real insomnia and real panic attacks, you cannot assume that all that equates to is sleep deprivation and anxiety from being a new mother.  It was way beyond that, and obviously you didn&#039;t experience what I experienced, otherwise you&#039;d understand what I&#039;m saying.  I&#039;m done trying to explain to someone who thinks she knows it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, until you&#8217;ve been in my shoes and experienced real insomnia and real panic attacks, you cannot assume that all that equates to is sleep deprivation and anxiety from being a new mother.  It was way beyond that, and obviously you didn&#8217;t experience what I experienced, otherwise you&#8217;d understand what I&#8217;m saying.  I&#8217;m done trying to explain to someone who thinks she knows it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Pringle</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630803</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Pringle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630803</guid>
		<description>As for &quot;Concerned Reader&quot;, I&#039;m done responding to bloggers who don&#039;t even have the decency or guts to use their real names.

As for Ivy, I have read your story and it is not much different than many I have seen over my life-time.  

Aside from the use of terms like &quot;panic attack&quot; instead of simply describing how new mothers often get extremely fearful and overwhelmed while taking care of newborns. 

Absolutely nothing new there. I remember it well myself and thinking I was crazy. But the good thing was that 40 years ago, people assured me I was not and that it was normal to get fearful and overwhelmed. 

Nobody taught me how to cope with having or taking care of a tiny little baby. It was a learning process - like everything else in life. 

But thank God, nobody even mentioned drugs, or I probably would have been conned into taking them just like the women are now.

As far as depression, the answer would not be to start dosing a woman with antidepressants because they don&#039;t even start to work (if at all) for 3 to 6 weeks.

That&#039;s a lot of time that could be spent on getting to the core issue of what is really going on with the new mother.

Insomnia goes with the territory and the common sense thing to do is to find someone to help out with the child to make sure you can get some uninterrupted time to sleep.

The bottom line is there are umteen things that could and should be tried before a woman even thinks of taking drugs while pregnant or nursing.

But that&#039;s not the way it works today.  The doctor, who does not provide therapy, prescribes the drugs first and the woman is lucky if she ever gets referred for any type of therapy.

Also, in the 15-minute office call, the doctor does not ask anything about what might be going on in the woman&#039;s life other than having a baby.

And 9 chances out of 10 there are plenty of issues that should be looked at and dealt with before a woman is drugged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for &#8220;Concerned Reader&#8221;, I&#8217;m done responding to bloggers who don&#8217;t even have the decency or guts to use their real names.</p>
<p>As for Ivy, I have read your story and it is not much different than many I have seen over my life-time.  </p>
<p>Aside from the use of terms like &#8220;panic attack&#8221; instead of simply describing how new mothers often get extremely fearful and overwhelmed while taking care of newborns. </p>
<p>Absolutely nothing new there. I remember it well myself and thinking I was crazy. But the good thing was that 40 years ago, people assured me I was not and that it was normal to get fearful and overwhelmed. </p>
<p>Nobody taught me how to cope with having or taking care of a tiny little baby. It was a learning process &#8211; like everything else in life. </p>
<p>But thank God, nobody even mentioned drugs, or I probably would have been conned into taking them just like the women are now.</p>
<p>As far as depression, the answer would not be to start dosing a woman with antidepressants because they don&#8217;t even start to work (if at all) for 3 to 6 weeks.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a lot of time that could be spent on getting to the core issue of what is really going on with the new mother.</p>
<p>Insomnia goes with the territory and the common sense thing to do is to find someone to help out with the child to make sure you can get some uninterrupted time to sleep.</p>
<p>The bottom line is there are umteen things that could and should be tried before a woman even thinks of taking drugs while pregnant or nursing.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not the way it works today.  The doctor, who does not provide therapy, prescribes the drugs first and the woman is lucky if she ever gets referred for any type of therapy.</p>
<p>Also, in the 15-minute office call, the doctor does not ask anything about what might be going on in the woman&#8217;s life other than having a baby.</p>
<p>And 9 chances out of 10 there are plenty of issues that should be looked at and dealt with before a woman is drugged.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Reader</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630792</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630792</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t you read, Evelyn? These mothers don&#039;t want your help.  And to keep insisting that they do is doing violence to them.  If their babies could talk, they&#039;d say the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t you read, Evelyn? These mothers don&#8217;t want your help.  And to keep insisting that they do is doing violence to them.  If their babies could talk, they&#8217;d say the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Reader</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630791</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630791</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t waste your time, Ivy.  Evelyn Pringle is never interested in reality- or sane-based points of view.  She has her agenda, and she barrels ahead over everyone in her way, all the while claiming how much she cares.  Weird-o.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t waste your time, Ivy.  Evelyn Pringle is never interested in reality- or sane-based points of view.  She has her agenda, and she barrels ahead over everyone in her way, all the while claiming how much she cares.  Weird-o.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630789</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630789</guid>
		<description>Easy to spot, not so easy for all mothers with PPD to get the right treatment.  You don&#039;t know what I went through, so suggesting that I&#039;m a wimp for not sucking it up like everyone else has the thousands of years women have been giving birth is ridiculous.  Did you survive anything other than the hormonal shifts that cause the majority of mothers out there to be tearful or irritable for the first couple of weeks postpartum?  Don&#039;t presume to know what I or any other PPD survivor has gone through unless you&#039;ve been through it yourself (sordid physical symptoms ranging from insomnia, not knowing what was happening to me, feeling completely unable to function, suffering from God-awful panic attacks)--and worse yet, have your own OB/GYN fail to even recognize that I had PPD at 6 weeks postpartum.  Who&#039;s to say that if I hadn&#039;t sought treatment, I wouldn&#039;t have wanted to end it all out of sheer fear and desperation. Yeah, I&#039;m selfish alright for wanting to get help so I could function and take care of my daughter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Easy to spot, not so easy for all mothers with PPD to get the right treatment.  You don&#8217;t know what I went through, so suggesting that I&#8217;m a wimp for not sucking it up like everyone else has the thousands of years women have been giving birth is ridiculous.  Did you survive anything other than the hormonal shifts that cause the majority of mothers out there to be tearful or irritable for the first couple of weeks postpartum?  Don&#8217;t presume to know what I or any other PPD survivor has gone through unless you&#8217;ve been through it yourself (sordid physical symptoms ranging from insomnia, not knowing what was happening to me, feeling completely unable to function, suffering from God-awful panic attacks)&#8211;and worse yet, have your own OB/GYN fail to even recognize that I had PPD at 6 weeks postpartum.  Who&#8217;s to say that if I hadn&#8217;t sought treatment, I wouldn&#8217;t have wanted to end it all out of sheer fear and desperation. Yeah, I&#8217;m selfish alright for wanting to get help so I could function and take care of my daughter.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Pringle</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630788</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Pringle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630788</guid>
		<description>Fine Ivy - you keep looking after the mothers, who by your own admission, are not voiceless and have mouths of their own.

As a woman, mother, and grandmother, my interest will remain focused on the helpless children who never asked to be born, just as it has since I gave birth to my own children beginning some 40-odd years ago, and as my 7 grandchildren entered the world beginning 17 years ago.

You women need to quit acting like childbearing is some brand new experience, any different than it was for the rest of us, who somehow managed to make it through without drugging our infants in the womb or through nursing, every time mood changes occurred that we knew came with the territory.

By now, the risks and harms that can be done by psych drugs to the fetus and nursing infants is well documented and easily found on the internet.

Unless a drug is absolutely necessary for some life-threatening condition, in my opinion, a decision to take it, with knowledge that any possible harm could come to the child, is selfish.

The few women who experience true postpartum depression or psychosis are easy to spot and they can get help. Train doctors to be on the look-out if there are none out there competent enough to see it.

Screening the entire 4 million women who give birth each year in the US is totally unnecessary and amounts to nothing but a recruitment dragnet for the new &quot;reproductive psychiatry&quot; industry.

People need to look at the whole picture here. This disease mongering campaign is by far not solely for the financial benefit of Big Pharma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine Ivy &#8211; you keep looking after the mothers, who by your own admission, are not voiceless and have mouths of their own.</p>
<p>As a woman, mother, and grandmother, my interest will remain focused on the helpless children who never asked to be born, just as it has since I gave birth to my own children beginning some 40-odd years ago, and as my 7 grandchildren entered the world beginning 17 years ago.</p>
<p>You women need to quit acting like childbearing is some brand new experience, any different than it was for the rest of us, who somehow managed to make it through without drugging our infants in the womb or through nursing, every time mood changes occurred that we knew came with the territory.</p>
<p>By now, the risks and harms that can be done by psych drugs to the fetus and nursing infants is well documented and easily found on the internet.</p>
<p>Unless a drug is absolutely necessary for some life-threatening condition, in my opinion, a decision to take it, with knowledge that any possible harm could come to the child, is selfish.</p>
<p>The few women who experience true postpartum depression or psychosis are easy to spot and they can get help. Train doctors to be on the look-out if there are none out there competent enough to see it.</p>
<p>Screening the entire 4 million women who give birth each year in the US is totally unnecessary and amounts to nothing but a recruitment dragnet for the new &#8220;reproductive psychiatry&#8221; industry.</p>
<p>People need to look at the whole picture here. This disease mongering campaign is by far not solely for the financial benefit of Big Pharma.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/14/bremners-false-claims-about-postpartum-depression/comment-page-13/#comment-630779</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=5202#comment-630779</guid>
		<description>And my interest lies in the women with PPD who continue to slip through the cracks because their doctors do not properly detect, diagnose and treat PPD.  They have a right to be asked simple questions to gage how they are faring after childbirth.  They have a right to know before they get it what exactly to look for in terms of PPD.  As a PPD survivor, I have firsthand experience of falling through the cracks, and that is not a good experience by any means.  I also knew well enough about the risks of meds being fed to my daughter, so I moved to formula.  I am not in this for profiteering by any means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And my interest lies in the women with PPD who continue to slip through the cracks because their doctors do not properly detect, diagnose and treat PPD.  They have a right to be asked simple questions to gage how they are faring after childbirth.  They have a right to know before they get it what exactly to look for in terms of PPD.  As a PPD survivor, I have firsthand experience of falling through the cracks, and that is not a good experience by any means.  I also knew well enough about the risks of meds being fed to my daughter, so I moved to formula.  I am not in this for profiteering by any means.</p>
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