“A person with rapidly shifting moods has had a lot of problems lately. They are driving in their car and are thinking about what would happen if they slammed into a wall or tree.”

I’m 32, and it still surprises me when I read something like this and realize that what I’m feeling is so common and that there are millions around the world who feel the same. [Makes me wonder if people 15,000 years ago thought about a similar thing.] It’s not that my thoughts lead to “killing” myself so much as hurting myself enough that I don’t have to go to work anymore or that if I was in the hospital that someone would finally notice the pain I’m in and give me help. Therapy and medication helps me to not *act* on the thoughts of driving off a bridge. I sometimes wish that these “harmful” thoughts and acts were taken as seriously as suicide attempts.

Thanks for the article.

Laura,

I think about that too, what people did thousands of years ago. Surely over time, I think many people have thought about suicide as an escape rather than a final end. But still, many people act on these thoughts. And absolutely, those thoughts are worth taking seriously. Even if you don’t want to really end it, there’s something real and painful going on.

It probably is more common than we might think. These kinds of things always seem to be more common than we think. Wanting someone to give a darn about you by stepping out and taking action. Glad to hear you are taking care of yourself, and sometimes it’s good to hear a “you’re not alone” kind of message.

Take care and thanks for your comment.

I’m giving myself another 3 years. I’m not suicidal the way I used to be when suicidal ideation was omnipresent and OCD-like in my thoughts. But I’m here now because doctors convinced me that it would screw up my kids if I killed myself while they were young. In 3 years, my youngest child graduates from high school, and that’s when I will finally leave. No more being a single mother, without friends, working 60 to 70 hours a week to make ends meet.

Our 20 year old son died by suicide. He had a new car, a good job, two days before had been accepted to the four year college he had worked two years to get into, had a great girlfriend we all loved… And yet, the “pain” became more than he could bear… HE NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT HE HAD EXPERIENCED ONE OUNCE OF PAIN!!!! The pain he left us is a thousand fold more and nearly indescrible to live with… Suicide - Hell no - I would never hurt anyone that much - the pain never ends it multiplies, and multiplies, and multiplies to infinity…
Caleb - we miss you and love you regardless.

Jude,

Even though I don’t know you, it pains me so much to hear the utter defeat in your voice. I know you hurt, but please bear with me while I tell a story.

There was a man who was an alcoholic. His wife tolerated it for many years, but for the sake of the children (and her own) she left him. He failed financially and hit bottom. Instead of hitting bottom and deciding to change his life for the better, he shot himself in the heart while his landlord stood on the front porch waiting for the rent that would never come. That occurred 15 minutes after he had told his younger son (11 years old) he would return his phone call in a few minutes. The older son (20 years old) came upon the scene with firetrucks, police, and an ambulance. The ex-wife was not far behind, having been telephoned that there was trouble. Jumping out of her car, the mother tried to run to her son. The police tried to hold her back. She demanded to see her son and be told what was happening. The police said, “It’s Frank, he’s been shot. He’s gone.” The mother, not understanding, said, “Where has he gone, the hospital?” The policeman said, “No, ma’am. He’s dead.” The piercing scream that came out of her son as he overhead that his father was dead will never leave her mind. Nor with the look in her youngest child’s eyes as she told him his father was dead. He said, “No, momma, you’re joking.” When she told him she wasn’t, he too, issued a scream that pierced her heart.

Jude, your children can be 11 or 20, the pain of a parent committing suicide is the same-overwhelming and unbearable at times. The older son actually is taking it worse than the younger son. It’s been two years and they are still grieving.

Jude, I too am a single mother with very few friends. But I know I’m important. I’m important to my children, no matter their age. Please reconsider. The suicide of a parent makes the child feel as though that parent didn’t love him. I know you are a good mom, you did not want to harm your children while they are young. Remember, you are important.

If the setback is temporary, people should stick with life, something good may happen. But I’ve known several people whose lives were disasters since childhood, and nothing good ever happened and was likely to happen. For those people, leaving this world made sense to me.

I am bipolar and have been suicidal many times. The depression gets so great it is like I am spriraling down a black hole. Nothing makes sense. I know it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, whatever the issue is. I turn on myself, and think I am worth absolutely nothing, and everybody would just be better off without me. In reality, I am in a great deal of pain (emotional), and just want relief. Sometimes it seems like the only way out. I am getting better at reaching out to people when this happens. I have responsibilites - a mate, children, grandchildren, friends that love and care about me. So logically I know I would be missed, and it would devastate everyone, especially those closest to me. But when I’m in that downward spiral it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get out of it. That’s why I’m trying to reach out now.

Wow - I’m overwhelmed by the response to this post so far. Thank you so much for everyone with real life experiences here adding on. Your stories are so important. Those are the battles going on inside so many people’s minds each and every day.

For those of you who are reaching out right now to this post and to other places, don’t give up. Don’t give up.

Having been blessed with a non-responsive rapid cycling form of bipolar disorder can I just say that whereas suicide ideation used to always be just a sign (or symptom - I forget which) of an episode of deep depression, it’s now every day. I’ve made it to 60 years, battling through at least 45 years of this and have no family left, no partner, no children who know about me, and I wouldn’t be missed. After all those years I recognise that I’m in a depressive trough at the moment, but the battle against ending it has become more and more difficult whenever the depressive troughs come along. Just my contribution…

I have treatment resistant depression and don’t see a way to live with it. A lot of the time it seems like the best thing to do would be to commit suicide because the pain of living is so overwhelming. No one knows what the future will bring but the present moment can be too much to cope with.

have thought about it many times, the book that has helped is, the power of now, by eckhart tolle, i strongly recomment it.

I think the key is when we feel hopeless. I’ve been through rough times many times, been in pain, been depressed, deal with PTSD.
The only times I thought of suicide was when I felt hopeless that things could/would ever change for the better.
The worst time was when I was in chronic physical pain and fatigue, wasn’t getting any help from my doctor, had no counselling available, had no family around, and my 2 best friends had left me to myself as they thought I just had a bad attitude (they couldn’t reason/cajole/guilt me into appreciating the good in my life and how so many others were worse off).
I had no hopeof things getting better.
If it wasn’t for my young child, I wouldn’t be here today…
Fortunately, I have managed to get back to a state of being out of pain, physically and emotionally.
And I now speak up to educate people on mental/emotional illness issues.

Tammy

I think that’s great you’ve stepped out with your experiences to help others understand. I’ve found that has helped me as well with my depression experiences.

When I was in a place that I could talk about it and have some distance from it, the talking helped me get out of myself, helped me find a purpose for my experience. Made me feel it wasn’t all for not. Also reminded me how far I’d come since that time, affirming my recovery.

Lindsay

I really feel for you. Having little help from treatments has probably been discouraging over the years.

Sometimes a support group of other people with persistent difficult depression (or anxiety or whatever) can be helpful. Puts you in touch with others struggling with something similar. I would bet there are online groups for that as well.

I wish you well. And I hope for better progress in the mental health industry finding breakthroughs for your type of depression.

My younger brother committed suicide this summer. He had suffered from severe depression for a long time and nothing seemed to work. He even did about 50 ECT treatments and I think he just felt he couldn’t take it anymore. I wish he would have known the pain he has caused his family. It is unbearable at times and I think if he could have known our suffering, maybe he could have hung in there long enough to get the treatment he needed.

Wow, it describes me so much when I get depressed and suicidal. I either want to runaway from it all and/or find ways to kill myself. I feel trapped, overwhelmed and don’t know what to do at those times. Even reaching out doesn’t help because then comes hospitalization, which takes me away from my 14 year old son. I think I deal a lot with anxiety, if not panic disorder, but my doctor and therapist think it is bipolar more than ADHD, major depressive disorder, etc. I believe it strongly to be depression with anxiety and when I get overwhelmed, there is no telling what may happen.

Thank you for bringing up the topic. As one can imagine, the impact of suicide goes far beyond the deceased and the funeral. Friends and family are haunted FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES about what they should or should not have done, why they missed the signs, how did they contribute to the action and loads of other “why” questions. I have worked with many patients who review these questions with themselves on a daily basis. Thankfully, besides religious reasons, concern for family is the second most common reason that people decide against suicide, and go on.

My suicidal thoughts are not impulsive. They are calculated, built on many years of observation, experience, and logic. The main conclusion to all this is that my lifelong dream is unacheivable. I did not realize until recently how powerful that dream was, and how I cannot let go of it. I will not settle for anything less than completely acheiving that dream. The conclusion that it is most likely unacheivable leaves me so angry, so sad and so disparaged. This life is a complete let-down. A gift, they call it. Ha.

I’ve felt that way so many times that I do take alot of pills and I still wake up or I end up getting sick in the hospital. The last time I was in the hospital my doctor told me that I would need to stay in long term because of the attempts I’ve did in the past 3-4 years. I take the pills to not feel anything and keep myself numb because if I didn’t have them and would have to feel I really don’t know what would happen. I’m glad I found this article today to help me realize what I’m doing is wrong.

I have been manic all of my life, as was my mother. At 35 that is when I learned about this “torment”. The puzzle came together for me. I am also medication resistant which only adds to my despair and confusion. I think about suicide. I am the only child, both parents have passed away and thankfully I could not have children. So here I am, living on ssi, not being able to work, never having a stable relationship. No one to turn too. Mania has robbed me of my dreams, my hopes. And it gets harder and harder everyday to cope with this never ending torment. It is a vicious cycle..

As a currently severely depressed bipolar II person, I think part of the problem is that suicidal people are so consumed with their feelings they live in a metaphorical box where all they can see or hear or feel is their own pain. Life becomes difficult and the suffering is unbearable. They are unable to process anything but their own feelings and pain. They cannot process what might happen to those left behind. For me, right now, I have a rational part of my mind that does think about the repercussions of my death on my friends and family and that is the reason I am still here. It’s not so much that I am so horribly depressed and want to kill myself due to my suffering right now, in the moment, but rather it’s the thought of going through this cycling the rest of my life. Suicide is a tough situation both for the person going through the pain and for the family and friends of those left over.

Suicide obsession has become a part of my life… I actually feel incomplete without it. I’m 24, and have been plagued with depression for 15 years. I don’t know what life’s like without it, can’t imagine feeling truly good, living free. I feel scared just imagining being without it… as much as I hate feeling this way, I feel kinda comfortable and safe with it… it’s what I know, who I am. Often my feelings are so blank and ambivalent, but underneath it I’m terribly afraid - to do anything, or not do anything. Often I feel like suicide is inevitable for me. I don’t know. I just feel trapped.

Thank you so much for writing this article. You don’t know how many times I tried to explain to my family and friends that I overdosed on pills not because I wanted to kill myself, but because I was at my lowest point and impulsive and just wanted the pain to stop. I knew it was a chance that I may die but I was willing to take that risk in order to just be numb to any emotions or thoughts. I saw myself taking the pills but was not able to stop myself. It was like an out of body experience. I still have those thoughts from time to time when I get overwhelmed but I learned how to get help and support for when those thoughts do come up. Thank you again for pointing this out in the article. It really gives people like me a voice and helps me realize that I wasn’t just minimizing my overdose and I really was not trying to kill myself.

There is so much pain expressed in so many responses. Pain from those that can see no other way out and from those who have lost loved ones that were desparate to stop their pain. I have attempted in the past, have thoughts of ending it all almost everyday. I have to sit myself down and list the people in my life that would be hurt, who would find me, what state they would find me in. Also, would this put someone in the hell of emotional pain I am trying to escape. I am fortunate that I have my “chosen family” that is there for me in more ways than they will ever know. Guess I could get that desparate one day, but not today.

“Don’t give up.”

Why not? No hope. No help. And, honestly, no one would care if I did give up.

It is different I feel, if you have medical reasons which will never change and are too painful with which to exist.

Suicide is not chosen,
it happens when pain
exceeds resources for
coping with pain.

Mania is hard, living is harder…

I attempted suicide fourteen years ago and survived only because I was found after becoming comatose from the pills. I had treatment resistant depression. I had support from family, friends and a therapist. However, the night of the attempt I felt that I entered a “tunnel” of despair and once I entered the tunnel I was no longer in control of my actions. I couldn’t call anyone. I just wanted the suffering to end.
There is hope. People did care. It took several years to recover from the depression. I remain on anti-depressants and am able to work and fully participate in life. I can even say I am happy.
I still feel the stigma from having attempted suicide but family and friends have forgiven me for the pain I caused them. I hope that I will always remember that my life is worthwhile. So is yours.

My mother committed suicide when I was 15 after many attempts. She did it in a very gruesome way to make sure that it worked. She had bipolar. Though I do understand how she suffered terribly as I have also developed bipolar, I do think that her example of choosing suicide as a “coping” skill has made it easier for me to follow in her footsteps when the depression has become so overwhelming.

I had my first overdose when I was 15 (3 months before she died) & my last one 2 1/2 years ago. I am 54 years old. I had promised myself I would not model that kind of behavior for my children as I knew how devastating it is to have a parent commit suicide & I was able to stick to that promise for 30 years until that relapse 2 1/2 years ago.

Many times I’ve had to crawl into the closet & cry all night & just feel tortured with emotional pain, but I kept my vow. What happened with this last time was I had a 5-month period of hypo mania after 5 years of relative stability & didn’t realize that it was so dangerous to not sleep but 2-3 hours a night for so long as I felt so GOOD & I’ve spent so much time depressed. But, of course, my brain was not getting proper rest & restoration & “misfired” & I crashed & overdosed suddenly.

My husband found me & I’ve been in a mixed state since then–getting my meds worked on & back into individual therapy & dialectical behavioral therapy, which are helping a lot.

PLEASE do not think suicide is not going to have a negative impact on your children–no matter what their age. You are modeling a behavior. Do you want them to follow in your footsteps?

Get help. That would be the kind of behavior that you would be proud to model & ultimately will be such a loving thing to do for your children. The grief of losing a parent to suicide is never ending, regardless of whether it is “understandable” or “justifiable” or not.

What I would like to know is there anyone else out there that is medication resistant and coping with it? Any tools or suggestions? I have educated myself about mania, talked to doctors, taken every medication possible and all that was left for me was ECT which I WILL NOT DO!! It has become almost to much to bear and do not know how to turn off my mind, rest, or even sleep… it’s all to much..

I already wrote my suicide note to all family members 20 yrs ago just in case it really comes down to the wire , I have bipolar disorder with anxiety, opiate dependant pain due to an accident with a truck. Sitting or standing for an hour or more is exhausting. I’m getting really depressed and losing my will. No friends,family conveniently needs to be reminded that I am how I am. If it weren’t for my kids…

Christina: I have found Dialectical Behavioral (group) Therapy VERY HELPFUL in teaching me how to regulate the overwhelming painful emotions. It is hard work, but so worth it to finally (I’m 54) get some relief from the emotional deregulation I have experienced basically all my life & have only known to overdose in response to it.

Most of the women in my group have been dxed with borderline personality disorder but I fit right in with my emotional turmoil & need to get some control. We all have the common difficulty of needing to learn how to diffuse the painful emotions & get through the escalating anxiety & emotions that prevent us from having a good quality of life.

It is more like a class with homework. Then I see the therapist that teaches it once a week for individual therapy. It has been SO HELPFUL. My pdoc cannot believe the progress I’ve made in 1 year. I’m now completely off Abilify (which I needed to get off as in 10 years on it I’ve gained 50 lbs. & now have high blood pressure & cholesterol & am now testing in the range of diabetic in blood sugar); my Lamictal dosage has been cut in half; I no longer need to take Trazodone to sleep or Klonopin.

I am learning “mindfulness” techniques to combat the anxiety. I highly recommend DBT.

I myself have been down that dark road to hell. I could not think of anything else to do except take my own life. I started drinking and using drugs to mask the depression, but that stopped working. I isolated myself from the world. I was already on disability for my depression that is by the way medication resistant. I too have been on so many drugs its ridiculous. I did have 30 ECT treatments, which has caused memory loss. I am also lucky enough to have been in a Clinical Study where they implant a device in the chest and attach wire to the vagus nerve which sends impulses to the brain every 5 minutes or so. It is similar to ECT but without the side affects. Anyway, I reached a bottom where I could see no light. Within 4 months I tried to commit suicide 4 times, almost succeeding once. I was in and out of psych wards and hospitals during those months. I finally reached a point where I could see clearly (due to medication) and could not believe what I had put my family through. I am greatful today that I did not succeed in my attempts. I hate to think of what my two boys would have gone through.

I wrote recently that I do not have suicide thoughts I have suicide dreams. Mentally you get to a point where suicide not only becomes a potential option it becomes the best thing that you ever heard of. I have been through the reasons why I should not take my own life and only one reason remains but that one reason is enough to get out of bed each morning and fight for another day. Suicide is about making the pain go away.

I think a lot about suicide when I am feeling down. I’ve tried before a few times when I was younger. The only thing that keeps me from it now is a couple of family members who I think would be hurt by it and plus I’m afraid that i might go to hell (somewhere I heard that along the line that if you commit suicide you will go to hell). Sometimes I really wish I could die. People say it’s selfish.. but maybe they are the ones that are selfish for wanting you to continue hurting. If they knew what it felt like they might understand. There are times I wish that I could convince those people that I would be better off dead.. somehow I don’t think they would go for it. So.. I have to continue on with psychiatrists and psychologists.. probably for the rest of my life.

I am dx as mpd/did. i’ve been in emotional pain my entire life and physical pain since my teens and i’m in my 50’s.

those who abused me programmed me to commit suicide before i ever told anything that happened to me as a child. i’ve had at least 20 parts trained to suicide out and at least 20 parts i somehow made to block me from killing myself. i only tried once and i could not finish the act.

i believe God has helped me to get help and get some healing from years of ritual abuse and other bad things i survived.

my two daughters and the people i love are my reasons why i continue to go to counseling and fight to get well. i do not want them to ask themselves why for the rest of their lives and wonder “is it my fault”? “is there something i should have done”? “am i not loveable enough for my mom to stick around for my life”?

those who abused me left me with so much pain and somehow, deep inside of me, i do not want to leave anyone i know with the pain of those questions that can never be answered. no suicide note will ever comfort my children and spouse or answer those horrid questions.

please don’t think i wish to guilt you into living, i am just telling my story, i’ve been in therapy for 15 years and tried so many meds before i finally got some relief from one anti-depressant. i will never truly forget the depths of darkness and misery in those most awful years - BUT, it has gotten better and i believe i will recover fully in time.

i am very sorry for all of you who hurt so badly this day and i sincerely wish something good would happen to help you heal and find life good. in sympathy,

Lisa

I am bi polar and have tried to kill myself twice, once almost successfully. I’m only 16, so up until recently I hadn’t attempted suicide because of what it would do to my parents and siblings. When I fall into my lowest moods it seems like the only way out- the idea of self harm too some how makes me feel more calm. I’m falling behind in school, losing friends and have lost my boyfriend. Increasingly i’m finding myself staying home from school because I can’t cope.

Thank you Suzanne for replying to my post. I am going to a pdoc next week and will ask him about DBT but I am not sure if my medi care will cover or if they even offer it where I live at present. I have been moving around because I live on a limited amount of money and going back to work would send me right back to the hospital. I have isolated myself and built what I call my own “citadel”. I no longer take anything regarding medications as I was weaned off cymbalta and my sleeping pill. Now.. xanex is the next drug that I either want to cut down or get off completely. Hence the doctor visit next week. I am struggling so hard, feel very alone and not sure where I will be living in the future. Frightened is the only way I can describe what I feel. The “system” is no help and I am losing hope for any help at all. Struggling with this alone has become a burden that is hard to bear. I feel quility about it because I know there are people that probably have it harder than me. It is so hard for me to talk about all this. I have never been a person who “dumps” on my friends and they have a hard time dealing with my mania also. I don’t get the highs anymore, but the lows are deep, long, and very dark. I expected that to happen as I have aged (50) and was told that by a few of my past doctors. I feel trapped.. and as a woman who once was very sucessful in her career and independent I am truly at my wits end. I just want it all to disappear, and there is no cure.

Why if there are so many of us that feel so in despair can there not be more done? Sometimes, sadly I feel as if it is all over money and/or greed. After all that is how most of the rest of the business world operates so why should the mental health system, drug companies be any different? I do not want to hurt any loved ones. I recently had a friend who killed herself and saw the impact that it left on her family and even on people she never thought that it would. All of these “treatments”….pills, ECT’s, therapy, etc. It would seem to me that there MUST be more with all of the technology that is out there. I have been in therapy for soooo long and yes, things do improve but when there are setbacks and all the suicidal thoughts start to come back it is very, very exhausting. I still am trudging along….

To Jude: I don’t know your situation but I do know that my mother left me at a very young age, then came back into my life and is not available again and I am in my mid 30’s. I do however know the pain. I also know that no matter when a child loses their parent it is unbearable. I do hope you can get help and change this decision for your children’s sake if not for yourself but I would hope that it will end up being for all of you. Obviously, I am no longer a child but I still long for my mom because I am her child.

Lisa

I’m amazed that you have been able to survive. You must be a heck of a strong person!

It’s another day filled with depression and despair of the future. I am planning to leave So. California in March because I just don’t know what to do anymore, and thinking about it, facing it everyday is getting harder and harder. I want some peace, I go to bed with pain, torment and overwhelming sadness. And I wake up the very same way. Why can’t it stop??????

Can you get outside into some fresh air, talk a short walk, anything pleasant to take your mind off it even if just for a moment?

I also recall you having a doctor’s appointment to ask about some treatments. I hope you are able to keep that and find help. DBT can very effective, so I would still ask if I were you.

Learning how to manage the thoughts, interrupt the cycles, and change the minute patterns in your mind can help you live better from moment to moment.

I wish you well with finding some helpful info about DBT treatment from your doctor.

I understand where Jude is coming from. Being a single parent myself and my child a fews years away from graduating high school, suicide is all I can think about. I am surprised that I have made it this far. It is exhausting being a single parent and the more time that passed I just realize how I was never meant to be here in the first place. There is nothing, there is no hope, no faith, no love, it is empty and cold, everyday drains another piece of me, I don’t even know if there is truly anything left. I have done the therapy, the anti depressants, read book after book and all that remains the same is more loss, more sadness and the true realization that there is and never was anyone there or anyone that has ever cared. Everything in this life is eraseable. Marriage is not sacred, ones you think are your friends are vengeful and selfish. No one truly cares at all in this lifetime. It is nothing that I ever thought it would be and as hard as try to change the path the road to nowhere becomes more clear with each passing day.

For Anna:
Even though you are in very real pain in a tormented life, I urge you to reach out to someone for help. The people you know now may have hurt you, but there are others you don’t know yet who can help you. Try to break away from your “old tapes” for a short while. Do a kindness for yourself. Getting better requires infintessimal steps that will add up to real improvement. I know you are tired, but your life is precious to someone–to me, and to others who value people as they are.

Amy
I have broken away for the past 2 years, nothing has changed and that was with continued therapy. For the first time in my life I think I accept the path and find some comfort in that. I accept people as they are and will always find good in them before bad. I actually feel as if I no longer exist, wasted breath, borrowed time.

For ten years, I had intense suicidal feelings and many hospitalizations. I prayed to my God to relieve me of these awful feelings. One day in 2000, I wanted to die. The feelings weren’t there. I don’t know how to explain it better, but I now had the choice to die or live. I feel I didn’t have the choice before cuz the feelings overtook me. I came close to stabbing myself in 2005. Family helped me overcome my pain. I lost a child years ago. This year, I have noticed that I am slipping into nothingness. Loss has eaten me up alive ever since my mom died. I get severe negative thoughts of standing in a busy street, wanting to get run over. I think of driving into oncoming cars. By the grace of God, I am alive, but I don’t know why.

I just want to make a statement. In life you tried to do everything right, what you think is good it isnt.No I am not depress I feel happy, happy with pain, the pain to know that no matter how hard you try to success got an MBA can’t find a job,3 spsychriatric episodes where you could even remember your own name; loosing your mind just because of love rejection, from your love one at the time, your mother, your sister and all of your nice and nephew hate you, with very strong personality who can anoy any body at will and is not welcome anywhere, you ask your frieds, teachers,pastors,neighbor for help but they answer is always the same I CAN NOT HELP YOU Or I DON”T HAVE TIME.every body is just after worldly things, money, money this world is just about money, Love does not exist if God is Love, so God does not exist My own life experiences speaks that truth, yes truth to me only, I never had love, I never had anyone care for me I was always avoided starting from my own relatives. I can not even remember when was the last time I had a hug, from anybody.When my daughter who is now 15, turned 10 and it was her birthday, for a family picture we need to be right next to each other and my mother just because of the picture put her arms around me and my 10 year old daughter turn around and surprised she said”Mamy is the very fist time I see my grandmother gives you a hug” I said, “NO, is not a hugh is just so we can all fit into the picture.Best friends rejected me for having mental illness, people don’t want to relate to people with mental illness, in hope I looked for teachers who study spychology but turn their back on me, so much for their psycholoby! they all see me as a threat of some kind when All I wanted in this life is to have a millions of friends , like the song from Roberto Carlos”YO quiero tener un millor de amigos” What is the reason for living? if you just keep getting rejected in everything you do? when all you have is your heart is Love and good intentions. You get tired of trying, there is no longer hope, no more faith,I don’t believe in anything anymore, I just pretend like the song says, The Great Pretender, Just to continue living for no reason otherwise you will be considered mentaly ill or depress. No I am not depress I just realilzed that, that whoever decided to make me, made a mistake in creating me that I shoul have never been born. All I wanted from this world was LOVE never happened neither with relative, friends, strangers, lovers, there is not enought love in this world just driven my money and material thing.I refuse to continue living without love.

I am amazed at the response this has brought about…I guess we all at some time or the other think of doing ourselves in! Sometimes thought the pain of loneliness and reminiscing about lost relationships gets too painful to bear and one does think of ways and means of ending the pain. It is a pain which cannot be shared as there is no one to trust with our feelings. Somehow reading all these comments has given me more courage to face life either alone, or with someone new.
May God and Angels look after all the Lonely People in this world. Sometimes there really is no one, but if one is able to concentrate on your favorite Angel, it will all pass.

Very tough post and thread. Perhaps not applicable to all, but for most, suicide is a terminal solution to resolvable problems. And, if you want to know the legacy you leave behind, go to the funeral of a suicide before you make the attempt, because that is what you leave behind: “what could I have done”, “where did I fail this person”, “why didn’t we see this coming”, and the worst is looking at the faces of children who are coming to grips they will never see their parent/family member/friend again. This is not a ‘Tom Sawyer’ moment where you could miraculously jump out from behind a tree and say “just a joke/mistake”.

There is no simple solution or quick fix to controlling or stopping suicidal thoughts and plans, but, having treated people who were suicidal and some who were just a drive or walk away from completing the act, I know most were not just grateful but appreciative that dialogue and medications, where applicable, made a positive difference. Hope and faith are almost never in the equation with a suicidal person, so those beliefs need to be reestablished, and can be if sympathetic, supportive, stable people can be let in to intervene.

My most difficult case was a person who came to me after getting a job promotion, bought a new house, and was expecting the first child in the marriage, and yet somehow twisted the job issue into a sense of pervading failure and further failure to the family. This person was going to leave my office and go home to shoot themself in the garage, but at least I had the opportunity to find out these things in my office and got the spouse, who cared and was fully invested, to help me intervene and convince the person to go to the hospital. The patient was angry and verbally cruel when left the office, but came back two weeks later to tell me that my intervention was the best thing, even though there was only hate at the time the hospitalization happened.

Reminds me of the line in an early year MASH episode when Hawkeye has the MPs take the Ron Howard character back home, as the soldier was underage. Howard says to Hawkeye, “I hate you, I will hate you forever”, and Hawkeye says without hesitation, “let’s hope it is a long and healthy hate.”

Better to intervene and make the person think more about their choices before impulsivity and irrationality leaves behind tears and ruin. That is what suicide’s legacy is.

Just an opinion.

therapyfirst, board certified psychiatrist

Only Christians and Therapists believe that there are always solutions for problems without considering suicide as one of them. All a person has to do is find the right ’solution’ and all will be well.
What is overlooked is the fact there may be real problems in a person’s life that cannot be fixed. Sometimes it is more than what is in the mind or brain that makes live almost unbearable.
I lost my only son, I am in ill health, I live with a deep depression because the quality of my life is so terrible. I will not end my life because of the pain it would cause others. Do I think suicide is a good solution for some people? Yes.

Wow, I feel for everyone here. I’ve been Dx-ed with depression/bipolar for over 20 years. When you feel suicidal, you’re just not thinking about everyone else. You just feel bad. I have a husband and two kids (teenagers). I’ve never said a word about my thoughts of ending my life. There will be no note. Thankfully, I have been doing a bit better lately. But, to read all these posts - I am so there. I feel at home. I soooo understand. And, it’s nice to know there are others out there like me. While I feel so alone, I’m not really. It’s sad, but true.

I don’t think suicide is a sin or you go to hell for it. I don’t think you’re in your right mind. You’re not thinking clearly. You’re hurting so bad. God has to have the most deepest compassion on you. My opinion, FWIW.

I am amazed at all the responses here. What does this say????? Wow….

I thank you all for sharing your deepest thoughts, pain and insights.

It’s hard to believe that this is what we spend our time thinking about and discussing…our internal dilemma of whether to choose our own self-imposed demise. Amazing that we have the consciousness to even discuss and consider this like no other living creature.

Sometimes I think it is because it is the strangely only ultimate power and control we can finally show ourselves we have over our lives instead of remaining as victims of our moods, illness and a mental health system as a whole with all of its unintentional inadequacies.

The reality is we are mostly guinea pigs anyways despite the mental health fields’ various experts and practitioners (whether through medications, other therapies or both)because any true expert on the brain and how it works will ultimately have to admit that they have only scratched the surface of how it works and mood interacts. Latest professional I heard said that maybe 3-4% of how the brain works is truly understood. Most drug therapies are unpredictable as to their effect and even the reasons they work in one case and not another, completely unexplained.

There is no doubt that the real nagging indecision we all face in thinking about this choice springs from three main sources:

1. The finality of the decision.
2. Our concern for those others in our lives who will be affected in the short and long term.
3. The feeling that we have at least occasionally experienced true joy (however brief and fleeting) and might miss the opportunity of that ever happening again. (How sad!!!)

I don’t judge anyone for of how they choose on this, it’s a very personal and individual expression.

Have any of you also noticed that with each deeper and longer depression that what I call “symbiotic withdrawal” becomes more intense and more superficial with those who do keep up some contact with you? You already want to withdraw and not talk to anyone anyhow.

What I mean is that with each bout of depression, any remaining contacts, be they relatives, friends and even psychiatric professionals that haven’t already left your circle, do so even more each time around. More loneliness and isolation

If they haven’t actually left your circle, sometimes it’s actually worse. You can already hear what’s going on in the heads of those that try to remain with you somewhat.

“Oh no, here they go again. Another one of their never ending depressions! Remember how much discomfort, time, energy, effort (perhaps even financial help) I invested in him/her last time? For this to happen another time? I don’t have the availability, energy… (fill in whatever other blanks applicable ) to do this again! I have my own life and enough of my own problems and issues!!! “(That unfortunately for us, is not their fault and it’s also the truth! They don’t owe you anymore and have a right to happiness in their own lives without your “muck”!!!)

So what happens is even when you do infrequently speak to each other (mostly only out of guilt on both sides: you don’t want to hurt them, they don’t want to feel like they have abandoned you) those conversations become an exercise in discussing anything other than what really matters.

It’s where the hypocrisy of those who don’t really know your individual head, situation and life history is and where they have no real right to judge or even really advise you.

I also don’t accept that anyone can live only for the benefit of others (even your own kids) with nothing in it for yourself. This is abnormal, unrealistic, and sadistic to anybody.

To those do-gooders of you who discuss “modeling behavior for your children”…. do I continue on suggesting to my kids that the miserable, sad, single, lonely, hopeless, insolvent, unemployed, treatment resistant, ever-crumbling father they have in front of them is a hero they should aspire to be like because he stuck it out? That (in my case) he made the gutless indecisive choice to stick around instead of allowing them to have the options a good will, executor, and life insured trust with over $1,000,000 could have had for their now teenaged futures, rather than let this option also disappear shortly because of their “idiot” dad’s recent financial and other choices?

I get mad at those who guilt trip someone like Jude, previous in this blog, who among others really touched my heart. Those people with recurring and largely treatment –resistant depression/bi-polar/adult ADHD etc. and the cumulative financial and emotional effect it’s had on their lives by middle age.

Ultimately, how those who remain behind decide to process and deal with my choice is their responsibility! Just like my choice is ultimately mine! They too must go on their own journey and figure things out for themselves. Like for me, their self-worth and identity cannot be defined by someone else’s actions. They need to discover who and why they are and how to get along in the world, just as they would after any unexplainable tragedy. Ultimately, this is not my responsibility; they can choose to respond to the events in their lives how they will, just as I am expected to.

I don’t pretend to have the right answers but I would not presume to judge or admonish the many who have made or are thinking about this choice.

Who really knows any individual’s complete, intricate story and daily personal hell and can presume to tell them how to choose?

Just my brief (hahaha) contribution on the subject.

I’d appreciate further logical and non-judgmental comment on my thoughts.

Mur

I came upon your page unexpectantly and am suprised with how true your words are. I am a professional woman, married, have 3 adult children and a grandson. I have suffered from depression for many years and now suffer from treatment resistant depression/MDD. I in the past year have had two suicidal attempts, this past one was more significant but I guess thankfully i’m alive. I have many thoughts of suicide and as you described it is basically an “escape” from everything. I used to have a strong faith that kept me from acting on any thoughts but that has disappeared. Now I just try to keep going. I have a huge issue with compulsiveness regarding suicide, that is one thing that worries me. I feel like an incredible failure at everything. I have very poor self esteem along with self hatred. I have many co-workers, friends, & family that continue to tell me what a wonderful woman I am, how I have helped so many people, & how strong I am and all of the things that i’ve accomplished and overcome. Yet I don’t feel that way at all. No one seems to understand that and how could I possibly feel the way I do. I was always pretty confident at work and now I just stress everyday before my shift because I feel so incompetant, so many of my collegues tell me that they would not have guessed that by how I perform yet inside i’m terrified. I have been on so many different medications, combos of meds, ECT treatments (which helped briefly but unfortunately I was one of the people that had huge memory losses). After many pscyhiatrists I have finally found one that is incredible, he has seen me these past couple of years through all of the major depression issues i’ve ever been through. I also have a cutting edge psychiatrist that treats me inpatient and is also involved with new studies and treatments. I have been hospitalized several times. I wish their was an easy answer, I feel like I just don’t know how much longer I can stay this way. My work has been somewhat ok with my medical leaves but I do get grief from my managment because they just don’t understand depression. My co-workers have been incredible. I am the primary income in our family so by my missing so much work it just adds to the whole mess. You have hit the spot with your comments. After my last suicide attempt and how severe it was I sit and wonder do I really want to die? Maybe not but I know I definitely want to escape this life (my life) so much that sometimes it seems to be the only option. I don’t mean to repeat myself but I was just amazed at your posting. I will continue to try and go on but it is so incredibly difficult. As for now i’m going to be trying several new meds. I’ve had several that seem to help but then I end up with all of the major side effects and we have to stop them. So in conclusion I just want to say thank you for your posting. it makes me think more indepth. Thank you for reading. I know that suicide is devestating to family and friends, but the effects of MDD is unreal. I’ve been told that i’m selfish for my acts but what do you do when you feel so incredibly down and worthless?

Wanda -

I’m still somewhat surprised at the response to this posting. Glad that it has helped you think about what’s going on and that others do understand your experience.

Everyone -

It’s hard for me to know what to say in response to the very emotional posts describing such difficulties. Just know that my thoughts and sincere prayers are with you as you move through each day.

In response to Mur- You are absolutely correct. With each bout of depression it does get worse, those around you don’t take it seriously and little by little everyone walks away….including the therapist. Thats when one realizes what a cruel, twisted joke this life actually is. It makes all the difference in the world if one person just genuinly extends their hand to you and says that you are not alone, but ultimately…..I am in this alone-

Anna:

Thank you for giving my post your response.

Anna, Christina, Dan, Jude, Wanda and others:

I appreciate your communicating your situations and absolutely identify with your opinions and responses.

Erika:

Your thoughts and prayers ( even by a former Catholic, now Agnostic) are appreciated for their true sincerity if not their actual usefulnesss (sorry but hopefully a professional light on the futility we all seem to feel daily ,not meant as a jab).

I am, however, surprised at how little else in my post was responded to.

Anymore thoughts from anyone or am I just delusional at either being right or as to how important what I have to say is.

PLEASE give me some more feedback for what I’ve said. Wishing you all greater peace.

Mur

Anna, Jude, Christina:

Is their a form on Psych Central we could chat or email each other?

Mur

Mur,

I was reading over your post and I have to agree with many things that you have mentioned. It is very sad that depression leads many of our lives.

I always feel like, “well her she goes again” when it comes to my “bottoming out”. I tell many close friends etc. that i’m sure they don’t want to hear about it. I do have many people that tell me that they are here for me. I have actually told my provider that I don’t see why he wants to continue working with me because of these bouts and the fact that I have so many Medication complications. He of course could not believe that I would even think that and actually told me that no matter what he is in the long run with me. Previously I did not have any providers like that. Actually one of my last providers told me that I needed to deal with my depression or deal with the medication side effects. That ended that pt/provider relationship.

My husband has been trying to understand and really thinks he “gets it”. He asks me daily how am I doing. If I tell him it’s not a good day well then he gets upset and angry which doesn’t help. So most of the time I just am the Wanda everyone wants for the most part. But at whose expense.

I keep hoping for those “happy moments” to come and occassionaly I will have a few moments. I just don’t feel like myself and haven’t for so long. I question who I am always. I wish I could figure that out because I think that will be a big step for me.

I am a health care provider and I run into many people who suffer from depression and I am always giving them important information about the disease and what to do if they feel suicidal yet I can’t do this for myself?

So I don’t know what to say. I guess that I just continue to strive on and hopefully at some point I will be able to function as I used to.

Well I guess that is about it for now. Thank you for your genuine honesty and really making a point of several things I just didn’t think about.

Wanda

Wanda,

I am a mental health provider myself. Though I am not depressed now, I wonder how I was able to give info and help others while actually suffering from it myself at the same time.

Seemed sort of hypocritical or something, but I didn’t actually realize what was going on at the time (if you can believe it). Really tried to believe it was circumstantial or work-related stress instead of postpartum depression.

It’s an odd place to be, both the caregiver and the sufferer, isn’t it? That’s proof that just knowledge isn’t always enough to help in your time of need. Take care and keep at it.

Mur,

I am looking into the forum question for you, and I’ll let you know what I find. Thanks for your interest. In the meantime, you are all certainly welcome to continue posting here on this thread.

I just found a news article on Psych Central from May of 2008 about a new option for treatment resistant depression.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/04/30/brain-stimulation-for-treatment-resistant-depression/2206.html

Here are some other important resources from right here on PsychCentral:

Suicide Helpline
http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm

Suicide and Crisis Resources
http://psychcentral.com/resources/Suicide_and_Crisis/

Anna:

Sorry for missing such a simple response to one of your comments!

For what it’s worth on-line, you can have my hand and heart for that matter. You are not completely alone, even if this is only “cyberspace”.

I understand your pain and hope you can turn to someone or somewhere somehow soon and find help and eventually some happiness. Until then you will be in my thoughts.

Mur

Wanda, Erika, and John:

Thank you for your thoughts and the links you provided. They provide more useful food for thought.

To Anyone:

I appreciate and could use the comfort of communication and feedback I seem to get from this, like someone cares!

Anybody got the courage to comment or challenge some of the less commonly discussed, maybe even controversial assertions I made in my March 4th posting?

Why should I choose to live only for others’ benefit, or as I also state, choose to live to their real potential detriment?

To confront why despite repeated long(years at a time) depressions and then repetative wrong decisions when I wasn’t depressed in my life (which then just sent me back there again), I should believe I can make the right decisions as I move forward in life from here?

Why should I believe in myself now at 46?

In the last 3 years, I have ended a twenty year marriage to a chronically depressed wife (10 years now) who is on permanent disability and has been hospitalized repeatedly for as long as 11 months consecutively,tried to raise 3 teenagers decently,lost my real one true love (a new partner), lost a very sucessful business, a career, my dad died(my one constant supporter and cheerleader), my house in 2006, and am now about to lose a another house and a rental home I bought and renovated last year January. I am also about to go bankrupt and lose near everything else I own.

Much of this has occurred because of decisions I made which were viable but that I then didn’t properly follow through on.

I have been parlysed by depresssion since last
fall and am unable to take whatever actions I could to at least improve or reduce the inevitable financial and personal destrcution that will imminently begin this month (no job and months behind on various payments).

It’s like I keep procrastinating so that when things get bad enough I will finally get the courage to do what I have been thinking of for months now. I also don’t trust my own judgement anymore about anything or anyone never mind a real future. I have a mess of complicated financial affairs and documentation I just can’t get the energy to organize and make sense of to anyone else with nobody else to help me through it.

I hide in sleep all day to make it go away and can’t answer my phone anymore for all the creditor calls.

I just want it all to end and me with it so I don’t have to try to rebuild some semblance of a happy, reasonably financially secure future from less than nothing at age 46 with no job! Finding another friend, partner and lover seems impossible, what stable middle-aged woman would want to take this burdensome needy, loser?

I can’t try to rebuild some kind of life yet again!!!

Nobody out there anymore or did I say something wrong?

Mur

You said nothing wrong, I understand and can relate to everything that you have said. I get it completely and ask myself the same questions daily, yet here we both are commenting on a blog on PsychCentral, as are many others. It seems to be that the ones usually listening are the ones that we don’t know but are more like us than we could imagine, so I guess, in essence, we are not alone. Day by day, one breath at a time.

Thanks Anna!

It was good to hear from you as I appreciate your understanding and that someone is listening!

However, the pain of no answers or real and practical day to day help is wearing me down to less and less of what matters to me each day.

I mostly cry now for my kids if I leave them (responsibily, well planned and financed as that might be)and for courage for myself one way or the other.

Have a good night.

Mur

I can’t give you any answers because I don’t know the answers myself. I’ve done the the therapy, read every book, tried many different anti depressants and I still am right where I began. I don’t know the answer.

As for your kids, I also have kids and it breaks my heart to know that my children deserve so much more but they are by far my will that has gotten me this far.

Like I said, I take it literally day by day, that’s the only way I can do it. Best of luck to you with each passing day.

So in the end, what I have got from this series of posts is: no answers, no end in sight, just struggle along, take another breath and beg that the next one is easier?
I truly think I want the courage for another alternative because this just isn’t reasonable.

Can anyone out their give me better than a faint hope to carry on, to hope for better than this? To believe in a future that rises above this garbage? Please give me something to cling to that seems real and substantsial other than saying “luck”!!!

Sorry Anna, but “best of luck sorting things out” is what the love of my life said to me when she dumped me by email. I can’t go on with just that!!! As we all know it means nothing, good wishes accompanied with no real help, solutions, care, responsibility or real practical substance!!! It’s what people say when they run, hide, give up on you, and won’t lift another finger, no matter how slight. Not that this is owed, but I believe is an inherent resposibility from those (I realize this does not include you Anna) from those who have said or claim they love/loved you in the recent past. You don’t just bail and run!!!

Sorry, calling it as I see it.

Mur

Mur,

Since you are asking for discussion, I’ll just throw this out where I read it at Baltimoresun.com in the opinion/commentary section from tues March 10 (a piece about suicide):

Suicide is a symptom of a problem, not a solution.

Or, as a patient shared with me years ago: suicide is a terminal solution to resolvable problems.

I won’t pull punches here, people do end up killing themselves, as that is what suicide is, personal homicide, but in the end, as I said in an earlier posting at this site, if you want to see the legacy you leave behind from your premature death, go to the funeral of a suicide first. Pardon the use of words here, but, if you can “live” with knowing others will be in pain by your ending your life, then I can only say I am sorry you could come to that conclusion.

You are sharing here. Take it to the next level and share out in the carbon based world.
I hope you will be surprised to learn others do care and have a perspective you might not fully comprehend until you hear it in person.

Be well, and be alive.

Mur

Im sorry I cant give you more for I have not figured it out myself. In many ways I feel the same way that you do and I am in the same situation, desperately searching for something to hang on to. Just as you and I both read the blogs here and post about it…..Ive come to realize that I am the only one who can give myself a “reason” to go on. I cannot rely on anyone else for that, for even if someone is there and truly cares, I fail to recognize it and don’t believe it regardless. But, I have made it a point to come back and check this to respond to you. Though it may not mean anything, I am listening.

“Ive come to realize that I am the only one who can give myself a “reason” to go on. I cannot rely on anyone else for that, for even if someone is there and truly cares, I fail to recognize it and don’t believe it regardless.”

Anna, for me, sad,,lonely, but true, you’re right, but I just cannnot accept that I am truly so alone and don’t want to be, so desparately yearn to be there with someone else who might support me to help bring me back to enable an otherwise brillaint self to be all that I can be. However, too many real world,practical “wows” for that to be realistic now, but I genuinely appreciate your caring followup.

To “Therapyfirst”, what I need to recover what is salvageable from my life is not just a Psychiatrist, psychologist/social worker but a “tactical support team” all working in tandem,including someone with some bookeeeping/accounting sense who can help me sort out the paper work mess I have made of my (recently diagnosed Adult ADHD) life(like all that’s gonna happen!!!).

So I continue down the “chute” to oblivion and persistent re-occuring depression.

The constant ups and “near” dramatic successes in my life, and now imminentally permanent failures at age 46. All of which leads me to another “mega-depression” which I spent 3.5 years (and a lot of cash I don’t have any of this time) digging myself out of last time.

So this time what? 4 years of agony and no cash to feel maybe(if I’m reaally lucky) 1 year (instead of 1.5 years,last time) of purpose and real meaning from life and love???? This roller coaster is the life I’m meant to live? Do I have to dive this far and deep, however euphoric the brief,intermittent and sometimes exquisite highs are, only to plunge so far that the next “high” cannot be possibly as good as those of my younger years?

Anna: “But, I have made it a point to come back and check this to respond to you. Though it may not mean anything, I am listening.”This is the sweetest and most thoughtful thing you could say/do under the circumstances…. Thank you so much.

And finally again, “therapyfirst”, yes, I have already attended the funeral of a 16 year old son of my best friend(my age) who hung himself last year. This after the same friend’s brother, killed himself by car exhaust 3 years ago. And yes, the questions nag about what my friend/anyone could have done.

But they are not so different from what my friend could ask that he “shoulda, coulda, wouda” done diferently if his son or brother would have been struck dead by a terrorist roadside bomb,9/11, freak accident, cancer, stroke or some other cause. These are all questions to which there are no answers.

They are also questions which I intend to advise my kids/relatives/friends to move on from as there are nothing but personal answers/questions in this situation from which to either agonize or grow on.

To my kids especially, and /or anyone else my advice would be this. If you’ve got to age 46, done the therapy/drugs/self-help and still can’t stand it… make your choice as you see fit. If you still haven’t found your place by then there is nothing anyone will do but you. If the pain of only what you can do by this point is too much, than do what your heart says you need to.

Ages 46, 5, 16, 62, 85, these are all but a flash in the pan of time. Live them fully, or not at all if that’s what need be to give you true peace.

Another 46,5,16… years of torture ain’t gonna necessarily do you… or your loved ones anymore good. They could! But they may also cause more selfish emotional and financial harm if you can’t “do it right”.

This is the decision you have to arrive at realistically from your own past and “track record” and truly decide for yourself if you can really improve on.

Mur,

You know, your comment about needing a “tactical team” struck me. I used to work for a community mental health agency, funding in large part by state and government money. It allows for a sliding fee scale and sometimes no cost to the person in need.

At this agency, there is a “day program” that goes on either at the facility or in your home as needed. There is also a residential program for about 6-18 months where the “team” helps you get things going in the right direction and helps you transition to independent living.

I think you would need to speak to your primary doctor or mental health provider about finding out the qualifications in your state for having a persistent mental illness (though it seems that you probably do just from your stories), where some of these programs are, getting you in the door, etc.

This is exactly what these programs are for - helping people who have persistent problems with mental health develop a meaningful life and get back on their feet with the help of a support team.

You may also find info on your state’s webpage about mental health services and qualifications. This really is a team effort and you will not be in it alone. You may even find good connections with those who have faced similar issues as you.

Mur:

you have me at a disadvantage as I am communicating to you through a keyboard and not having the ability to talk directly, as I am a true believer in non verbal cues as much as the spoken word. The ball is in your court. You have presented your position, and now all I can say is make responsible choices. If you have been to funerals of suicides, then you know the legacy. I just hope whatever your beliefs in afterlife give you validity in future choices.

There is more to gain in life than death. You have to believe that to appreciate it.

Good luck in future decisions.

By the way, Dr Grohol has an opinion or comment at this post?

Thanks for yout input. But in my case, there is more to gain in death.

A $1,000,000 in life insurance and maintenance
of a home for my kids and some kind of financial legacy to build their lives with versus the impending bankruptcy with no career or job that I face if I remain much longer.

For me, an end to pain, endless uncertainty and loneliness, an end to constant self - defeating thinking about all the screw ups at every level of my life, professional, personal, relationships and financial that got me to this point at 46. An end to all the “coulda,shoulda,wouldas” of the past, where my life might have been so different as recently as the last year or so.

I have no basis to trust my own judgement or insticts for any other way out, or to find one that would be remotely palletable.

Logic dictates what I should be doing here, if and when I can find the courage to carry it out and after at least getting it together enough to do the minimum to properly arrange my affairs (correct beneficiaries on my life insurance and redo my will).

For me, I don’t see any other solutions to this alternative except poverty for me and my kids as well as a life of endless regrets.

You will do what you believe, but, will your beliefs do you good?

One last recommendation before you move forward with decisions: talk to three different people who’s parents committed suicide, and really listen to how they moved on in life after the suicide.

I would be surprised if at least two did not say in so many words, “I failed my parent some how”, and/or “why didn’t they ask me how I felt about their choice before they acted on it.” If you are ok with that legacy with your children, I am sorry to hear that.

You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, but I do know this, the ultimate selfish act of suicide has consequences, some I may not know exactly for you, but, they are out there.

Again, be well, and be alive. I will not reply further as I guess my points are repetitive, but, I like the line in the MASH episode I spoke of earlier: let’s hope it is a long and healthy hate (at the very least).

My brother killed himself when I was 13, he was 16. I miss him like crazy. I’ve tried it twice. It almost worked too. When I was 16 I tried, got scared and drove myself to the hospital to get my stomach pumped. Then after my husband died of cancer at 25 (I was 23), and went through a bad spot in a relationship, I tried again. It almost worked that time. My boyfriend found me after I took all of the remaining pain meds my late husband had while battleing cancer. He did CPR until the paramedic’s showed up and medi-vaced me 300km away, where I was pronounced brain dead and was then sent another 300km to get my organs harvested. When I was being checked out before they started to cut me open, they realized that I was NOT braindead, and was very much alive, but in a coma. I was in the hospital for over 6 weeks. I have no memory of what happened, encluding taking the pills. I just kinda woke up in the hospital, knowing that I tried to kill myself, but not remembering actually doing it. I was finally released. My pain doesn’t end there. I batteled with my memory on a daily basis, not remembering when I took my meds, if I had talked to someone that day, or what I went to the grocery store for. I then went out one night with my boyfriend for a good time. It didn’t turn out good. We ended up getting in a huge fight with a bunch of people, and are now fighting the charges. We decided to get a fresh start somewhere else, but I didn’t turn out good either. He was not happy there and wanted to return to where they came from. I didn’t want to go and felt heartbroken to leave. It also made me think about why we were going. What did we have there? Nothing. I felt like it was his way to get rid of me. Knowing how much I didn’t want to be there, it would surely cause problems if we did go. So now what do I do? Go to the one place in the world I don’t want to be, or lose the one person in the world I want to be with the most?

as i have read through some of these things i do see i am not alone in how i feel but, it doesnt make any difference. i have been fighting suicidal thoughts for years and have had some attempts some so close..this time i am going to make damned sure i die. i know it may cause pain and as i was told today it was selfish well it is selfish for folks to want mt to continue living in such pain. what is wrong with merciful killing. folks do it for those in physical pain it has not gotten better so far as the stupid term a permanent solution to temporay problem the prolbems are astill here…just try to support folks you guys being suicidal is not an easy place to be.sure there are those that are impulsive and just do it but so far as i understand a lot of us think about it 24/7 even when i am busy and trying to live my life it is there..as this might just be the last time i do this…you who arent suicidal need to be nicer and thouse that have beaten it i am so very happy for you but it doenst work for me.

kt:

For what it helps, I read your post, I hear your “hurt” and the ideas behind it. I think I am sorrier than most for you and get the desperation of, “Yea right… blah, blah, blah, …. but this doesn’t work for me”.

I understand your feeling of rejection by those you think don’t get it, that everyday “why?” question and how “mean” they seem. Don’t they get we’re “broken” and can’t
“Just Do It”?

I hope you find the solution that is best in both the long and short run for you and those that matter to you.

As for me, I am so torn, yet on such a self-destructive, “not doing enough” to help myself path, that I can’t seem to get away from. I give up! I feel like at 46, I can’t pick up and start from less than “scratch” again.

It’s like I need enough, the final, evidence to finally end it, despite whatever help I can/might still be able to give myself, so I have the justification,and don’t have to face every day like this again.

I feel so alone,there’s nobody else to “rescue” me from myself, but, yet feel so responsible for all that’s screwed up in my life and for those that depend on me.

How else do I get out of this endless disappointment with myself and to those around me and with my life????

Mur

Feeling that I’m just here out of guilt?

Mur

I am seriously suicidal, although I am trying like crazy to think of an alternative, but cannot. Suicide at this point is probably the best option.

I’m a single, middle aged woman alone in this world. No family to help me, well one sister but she has a lot of her own problems and my problems are just an immense burden.

Very soon I will be homeless. I had a decent job 2 years ago and was laid off. I am, at this point, financially destitute with about $15,000 in debt and no credit. I had to move to another area of the country to live with my sister, and there are absolutely no job opportunities for me. No business, and any minimum wage jobs are not given to me. I am completely stuck. I don’t have companionship because of my financial situation, which is a big burden. No home, no car is not exactly date material.

I have tried everything. Social services, etc. and at this point, it appears my only option would be living in a homeless shelter while I try to regroup my life. I know, after being an intelligent, social person in society for many years, that I will not survive or thrive in that atmosphere. I will be terrified and more depressed.

To think about being this alone, this restricted and this burdened by lack of finances for the next 20 or so years is debilitating. I’m a religious person, and for some reason, God does not seem to want to respond. Sometimes, as they say, the answer to prayer is “no.” At any rate, leaving this earth will be easier and will ensure the suffering will end.

Not all people who commit suicide are emotionally unbalanced. This life can be extremely, extremely hard for some people and leaving it may bring us into a better existence.

Suicide is a choice, and in the end, there are some, I hope a true minimal few, who may have to take that path. But, I always ask people who are considering an extreme choice to really make sure they have exhausted all the choices besides “the final one”, because you never know when an earlier choice may open a door to options not considered previously.

My most difficult interaction with a patient was a woman who had incurable, metastatic cancer and wanted to die, but had the perspective that suicide would “damn her”, so was looking for a provider to give her a lethal dose of medication. The problem that got me involved with her was no one else involved in treating her felt comfortable providing that intervention because everyone felt that action would damn them, as murderers. I spent a good period of time talking with her and trying to present the pros and cons to hers and the others side to this dilemma, and in the end we came to agree to disagree, but at least I was able to get her discharged to home to die in an environment that she had the most comfort to finish her life. She died about a week later, and what I gleemed from the grapevine, I sensed family may have provided that terminal dose of meds. If in the end someone did that and could be at peace with that choice, then I guess it worked out for everybody involved.

But, isn’t that what we would prefer as best able to strive to see? That our deaths do not weigh negatively on others who are still alive? That is the legacy of suicide, that it is a pain that gnaws at the souls that still walk on the planet. You may be right it will have no eternal consequences for you the suicided. But, if you have an afterlife that allows you to observe others, can you watch others suffer for your choice?

Just a question, but I think it needs asked.

Be well, and be alive, and enjoy choices!

Hi
I have grappled with depression for 40 years to varying extents. Occasionally deep and visceral (Noon Day Demon) not like that now but I am getting older and have been on meds: Wellbutrin, Effexor, Klonopin (allergic to prozac zoloft etc and Paaxil) for too many years.
I used to have my own businesses and do well, I am almost out of money. Don’t know how to find local resources.
I can function fairly well after 9 hours of sleep for about 5 hours in the morning and marginally for 4 hours in the evening after a three hour nap. I just don’t really have much strength or desire to go on. I have lots of friends and I have a wonderful son and don’t want to saddle him with the trauma and grief of a parent that couldn’t make it. This is not surrounded by a lot of drama in the exterior world as I am very embarrassed about being so abnormal but am running out of ideas, resources and hope. I don’t think I can live alone anymore and don’t know how to find cheap group housing.
Am on Fed Dis for bad PTSD after world trade which is somewhat better (no more running down into basements or crying when planes fly over etc) Agoraphobia when I am tired from psychic exhaustion. I can’t work where there is too much noise or too many people and I start to cry and have to get into a bathroom or my car or someplace safe. Not great for holding down a job.
Does anyone has any ideas or resources? I live just north of New York City. Many Thanks Tzi

FYI to Tizzy(Tzi):

have a frank discussion with the MD prescribing the Klonopin; chronic use of the benzodiazepines, which is the class klonopin is in, can cause or aggravate depressive symptoms. It is interesting and in the end wonderful to watch most patients improve when you get them off the benzos, but they need to be tapered, NOT abruptly discontinued.

Just an opinion, but from an MD.

therapyfirst, board cert psych MD

My sister tried to kill herself recently. I have been depressed in the past and I understand why she did it. She is having such horrible pain in her life that I can hardly think how she’ll ever be OK again.

But in my non-depressed mind I know she still has things worth living for. I don’t know how to help convince her when I have that part of my mind that is just like hers. I know it’s up to her but the mental health care she is getting is not good at all and I feel helpless for her.

I’ve been through a lot of tough times. I’ve experienced a lot of pain, rejection, disappointment, failure, abuse. Many times I wanted to curl up, go to sleep and never wake up. However, every time I fought to live. I fought the urge to end life, a precious life, mine. It is precious to me even if it’s not precious to anyone else. I matter to me, whether anyone else cares of not. I matter to me. I matter. Having experienced the urge, the depression, I can say with truth and knowledge that there is nothing worth giving up this life which was freely given to me. This is my world, this is my life to do with as I choose according to the will of Jesus Christ whom I truly believe in and whom has brought me through the many dark places of defeat.

What do I do? I’m ruining my childrens lives, my husband is turning away from me and no one knows the pain I’m in. I’m one of those people who will sacrifice everything to help others and all the while, my own life is falling apart. I’m angry, tired and want out of it. My family is suffering - my children and husband bear the brunt of my anger and pain. If I was gone, they’d no longer be suffering. Sure they’d miss me, but they could move on, whereas I can’t go anywhere, I’m stuck in this cycle of pain. Why can’t I ask for help? My husband now ignores my pleas - he’s had enough. He doesn’t understand and never will.
My brother killed himself at 31 - I respect him for that. He could not see a way out, so he did what he thought was right. Yes, he left behind a devasted family, but we got through it. I just wish I could talk to him to ask for help - I’m a mess and don’t know what to do. If I was gone, my husband could re-marry and give my children the life they deserve. They need a mother who is well, happy and can love them the way they deserve. They don’t need to burdened with a mother who can’t cope like me. I kissed them tonight and reminded them I loved them and now I just want out. I don’t want to keep going. I’m tired, I’m exhausted, I can’t do it anymore…I just want someone to understand.

The reason why I would commit suicide is because I truly feel so hated. I have been used, rejected, despised, for things I have said or done, and feel the world is truly agianst me. I allow people to treat me any way they want, I have no boundary setting, I blame no one but me. I had crappy parenting. I was raped and molested ages 7-11 and just last week had a nightmare of my brother raping me, because he, over 10 years ago, got caught and is now a registered sex offender. It hurts me that I have no relationship of love with any family or relatives. I meet people who I really love, but don’t know how to sustain and maintain, and nurture those relationships. I am lonely, I am angry, I am terrified, I am depressed. I am a daughter, I am a sister, I am a friend, I am a student, I am a patient, I am a neighbor. And I still want to die. I have had all I can take. Many medications, a lot of trauma, and verbal/emotional abuse that haunts me 24/7. I don’t deserve a place on earth and that is the truth. I am a waste of space, people just do not love me, it is a FACT.
Thanks for reading. I don’t play victim, I feel empty and am losing my fight, REALLY losing my fight. It’s me, it is all my fault.

Sorry to anbody else, I just can’t keep up with all the previous writings, especially in my own state of depression and hopelessness. So, to the last two writers:

To Angela: I so identify with everything you wrote, so while it doesn’t change anything, I want you to know I do understand and you are not alone in how you feel. I feel very similarily and hurt with you for the same reasons and for what you are going through even though they probably make no logical sense to someone else. It doesn’t matter though,that’s what others don’t get, because that’s what we go through every day, objectively justified or not!

However,there is also a point, I have finally noticed, that whether spouse, parent, sibling, friend, co-worker, acquaintence,therapist, agency(ies) or whomever else, there is only so much time, energy or even money they can invest before they justifyably need to look after themselves or they screw their own lives up.

So, despite of that maybe not being enough to “fix’ us in our state of living and mind, they finally need to say “Enough already! I can’t help anymore!” You can’t blame them, life is about optimal survival for everyone, us and them! A point where “they” need to take care of themselves.

If a true review of the help you have or could obtain leaves you at verifying that things are at that point, then you need to make this realistic assessment.

“Am I just pained, or am I starting to actually pull others down the drain with me?” If the answer is, “I’m sinking further, no end in sight after realisticaly trying, and now my sticking around is going to hurt and drain more resources than the short and long term “hurt” and drain on resources imposed by my “exit” then you have an answer either way.

Regardless of your choice just make sure your financials (will and life insurance) are properly best arranged for now or whatever your future choice may be for your survivors.

To Kristen: Wow! You make me feel really guilty for just being mentally messed up. You have some real heavy issues that have happened to you past and are haunting your present that would make anyone mentally messed up.

I want you to know this though! None of it’s your fault!!!

You are as deserving of love, friendship and relationships as anybody else!!! You sound like you are younger than me (46) and still have the time/chance to reorient your life.

Seek especially talk (cognitive) therapy if you are able, so you can believe this too and still find the social skills and trust you need to build the relationships you can have to help you through life.

I may not understand your life well enough, but get that part going, and the rest of your life will probably follow through on a more normal path.

Take Care, Mur

Just wanted to say–I’m very experienced at the suicide thing. Started when I was 15 & am now 55. Did overdoses on medications. Stomach was pumped in the ER.

Mother did the same thing over & over again starting when I was 3 until she finally got serious & asphyxiated herself with a plastic bag over her head. She was finally successful at 45. I was 15. She was diagnosed as bipolar. I have the same diagnosis.

But in the last year since I have been doing dialectical behavioral therapy–I have finally been freed fro my suicidal thoughts. They were constant before. I am retraining my thought patterns. My meds provider is amazed at my progress & I am decreasing my dosages of medications & discontinuing some. No longer suffer from acute insomnia such that I had to be so heavily sedated to prevent a manic episode from occurring from lack of sleep (which preceded my last suicide attempt 2 1/2 yrs. ago).

It is unbelievable to me to be free of the suicidal thoughts & desires. I was “white knuckling” it for many yrs. while my children were growing up as when a parent models a coping technique such as committing suicide it makes it easier for the child to do that behavior. I am a prime example of that.

All I’m saying is that I am evidence that this desire to die can be reversed, but it does take hard work (for me it was the dialectical behavioral therapy & indiv. therapy).

Christina: Have you moved? Are you OK?

People who have never been truly suicide rarely understand the experience. I am 39 and have suffered from major depression on and off since I was 12. I first attempted suicide at 13 and a second time in my 20s. I have had every therapy except ECT. As I have gotten older, the only way I have been able to cope is to stop caring about anything. I disguise this to my wife by just repeatedly telling her I don’t need anything. I’m supposed to graduate next month with my MBA, but am actually ashamed of it because it dragged out as a part-time degree because of my depression and a near-suicide attempt halfway through. My wife is upset that I refused to get grad photos taken or attend convocation, but I feel as if I obtained the degree deceptively. She suggested that I get myself a gift to celebrate, like a 52″ TV or an expensive suit, but I just got angry because I think the idea of treating yourself is insane. I know I’m rambling here. I’m just frustrated because I’ve been haunted by this my whole life and have never had the guts to go through with suicide, and as life has gone on it’s just gotten more complicated by marriage, career, and all that. It’s just a god damn spiral of feeling worse and facing worse consequences for offing myself. Depressed people should never marry.

My wife of 35 yrs asked me to leave our home. This was after a 4 day hospitalization for depression. She needs a fresh start. I missed everything that she needed from me emotionally and now I am alone. Why not end it? Failure in marriage is the ultimate failure.

Suzanne: Lucky you, please keep it up!

Mike: Amazing, a successful business person myself once, it’s unbeleivable that even obtaining a MBA (great accomplishment regardless of when or how)does not among other things help us validate ourselves.

To Mike and “TM”, unfortunately, marriage is no substitute for self-validation! More easy choices to make if you don’t have kids though!!

Mur

Hmmm, seems like someone is trying to instill hope to some of the commenters. And that is good. As I wrote two weeks ago here, it is a shame to act out in such an extreme manner with attempting/completeing suicide to then realize what/who was there as a benefit, a positive. I am not minimizing the thought or perspective, just that it is one of several thoughts or perspectives. That is why cognitive behavioral therapy is more often helpful in treating depression–it gets you as the patient to see the skewing between feelings and thoughts and challenges you to reframe or reconsider the direction.

Unhappy people do not see positives or options. Trying to surround yourself around people who have the belief of choices and alternative viewpoints can offer a change.

I was glad to read the commenter who spoke about dialectic therapy. A good therapist will never negotiate there is a place for harming/killing oneself. Glad it worked for you! This site may help more people than the author may have imagined!

Be well, and be alive.

I lost my father two months ago, I am 23 years old and have an amazing life, nevertheless since he died I contemplate suicide every day, I am on meds but they only fix so much-I am currently living overseas until late May and have no close friends in the city where I’m living, I feel as if I have lost the only person who understands me and if I could end my life in the physical realm maybe I could find him in the afterlife. I miss him so much and whether it is today or tomorrow I fear that suicide will eventually be my last decision on earth. I can’t find peace within this pain and although it is selfish, I cannot seem to find any other way out.

I am the Assistant for a bunch of really educated, smart people. I feel so inferior around them and don’t talk too much in case I say something stupid. I have relationship problems and cry most nights. I find it hard just to make ends meet and wonder when I will be able to have some fun. Everything’s an effort for me.

To Bella:

I would hope you consider getting into therapy to discuss your framing and perspectives to see if you can change things for the better. I sense you have options and hope you pursue them. I hear things are an effort, just make positive and productive one!!!

By the way, if these people you work for are so educated and smart, they would be sympathetic, sensitive, and supportive if you would take the risk to be open about how you feel, unless they just have brains and no social or empathetic skills. Then they are just smart asses. Sorry to be judgmental without much to go on, but, just my opinion.

therapyfirst

I saw a patient recently who had a family member commit suicide in the home with others inside, including the patient. I didn’t have easy answers how to help this person process how to move forward, but I will say here, this is why there is nothing but pain, anguish, heartache, anger, frustration, and sadness that is left behind from a death by suicide. And, to do it in the presence of others nearby is, in my humble but experienced position, is not just selfish, but I feel at least a bit cruel, at least how I see it per this incident. I share this here just to hopefully empower those who have commented, as well as those who read but are silent to the thread here, there has to be other options to the future that can be productive and positive for each and all who are in pain.

At the end of the day, not many people can do my job, not that I am great and omnipotent, but try to console and motivate those who deal with these kind of experiences somewhat day in and out and I guess you are, at the very least, lucky to handle this type of work.

Hey, Dr Grohol, how about a post about mental health burn out, both for educational and support to providers?

I don’t know my family, was never adopted and am left feeling pointless lonesome pain much of the time. I’m not the marrying kind. Have walked streets and sat in corners for hours. Had empty sex or worse felt brief moments of (whatever you’d call it). Never feel quite human. Am “bipolar”. After finding my mother was employed when she had me (out of wedlock of course) I hated her for years. You probably don’t care either. I wish I could care less and
really wish an IUD had stopped this.

How about this scenario: My brother is almost 60. He has a history of mental illness (bipolar and BPD) and is a raging alcoholic. He was doing OK until he left his wife (about 8 years ago) and our mom died (6 years ago). After our mom’s death, he started drinking (it had been several years since he had a drink but he still used/abused other drugs). Now, he has grand mal seizures from the alchol. He has lost everything and everyone he ever held dear - as well as his health. He is living on the streets, having burned the last family member who tried to help. He says he is ready to “check out”. How does one convince someone not to take their life when they truly are at the end of their rope and feel there is nothing to live for?

MyBrotherskeeper:

If you are sincerely asking the question how to convince someone not to take one’s life, there is no easy answer, but it starts with the person accepting the need to resume sobriety. Over half, if not closer to 70% of suicides involve being intoxicated on a substance, to disinhibit usually, so to aid someone, the person has to be sober.

Sober people usually attract sober supports, and that enhances a more positive and productive viewpoint. Unfortunately, people commit suicide, and many of them use substances. Until society, in my humble yet experienced opinion, accepts that intolerance of substance abuse has more to gain than lose, losses outweigh gains.

People have to want help to get it. I hope your brother makes the healthy choice. I think it can be presented this simply, as direct and honest is the way to go. I wish you well in this pursuit.

Dear skillsnotpills,

Thanks for responding to my post.

Since our mother died, my brother has been in detox and treatment (including a 60 day lock down) more times than I can count. He has told people that it doesn’t matter how many times they send him to treatment, he is going to start drinking as soon as he gets out.

I know that his mental health issues are a big part of his problem yet it seems like none of the treatment providers try to treat that - they think that once he gets “sober” he will get better. I don’t agree but what can I do? He is at the mercy of state/county programs since he has no money or assets.

My oldest sister (who my brother most recently lived with) says that this is just his way of getting attention and having someone come to his rescue once again. I have been through this with him before so I know that there is some truth to this. I have had to take a hard line with him over the years after burning out trying to help him right after our mother died.

My siblings and I grew up with alcoholic parents who were very neglectful and abusive. For my own well being, I can’t be around the drinking.

What are the options for someone in his situation? Detox is only going to get him sobered up but that is about it.

MBK:

Having worked as a consultant at an addictions inpatient rehab program for 3 plus years, if the patient does not want recovery, it won’t happen. I am sorry to say the following, but I am honest and direct, and it needs to be said: there are some who are what I call Terminal Addicts, who never find the bottom to start working up to recovery, and in my opinion, a lot of these terminal addicts will grab someone to take an innocent one with them. So, all I can say to be truly caring and invested to those who are caring and invested people, is know when to let go or cut the proverbial line to avoid being dragged down. Saying no, not continuing to do the same when it doesn’t make a difference, accepting the adage that “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” is not being selfish or mean, it is accepting reality.

I hope your situation ends better than some that I have witnessed, both as a psychiatrist and family member. Just watch out for those who are equally chronic enablers, co-dependents, and not in touch with the realities of dealing with addicts. It is fascinating and disturbing to listen to those with the loudest opinions usually with the least experience or qualifications to comment.

Be well, be happy, be prosperous.

I have a son and he is what has kept me here. I am scared for what might happen to him if I leave. Being a single mom as the woman mentioned earlier has so many taxing things that come with it (his father is minimally involved).

I am a full time student, full time worker, and a double time mom. Everything I do is for my child, and because of this I have lost myself somewhere in the last decade. I cannot find myself. I went back to school to do what I really wanted in life, but it seems an endless battle I have three years down and still have two to go. I am tired. I have always had these thoughts in the back of my head, but they are getting stronger.

Even though I have a secure job it does not cover the bills. I am only 30 years old and feel as if I am 60. I don’t want my son to feel that I don’t love him enough to stay, I want him to know that he would probably be better off. Times are tight and he comes home crying because they make fun of him at school because we are “poor”.

I have spent three years obtaining a BA in Sociology and in two years I will be a nurse. I put a good face on, it fools my co-workers at work who happen to be in the medical field and are trained to see through this. At home I tend to let my shield down to everyone but my son, not one person has seen my withdrawal from life. I know I am in trouble, but it seems no one else does.

Monique, I am way too overtired right now to say much of any use, but I just briefly wanted to say to you that I heard you very clearly. You are just totally overwhelmed, and tired, like you say, and that is real.

I know how much you love your son, but no matter what you try to hide from him, he knows it anyway. I only wish my mother had told me just enough about how depressed she felt when I was a kid, just enough so I wouldn’t have spent hour after hour worrying about her, and wondering what I did or didn’t do to make her better, and why every time when I finally made a difference, and she smiled, this would be destroyed once again, and again, and again no matter what.

I also understand what you mean when you are thinking that your son may be better off without you.

So, skipping everything else that may have been circling around in my mind just a few moments ago when I thought about you, and even felt you, let me just say this.

The very best you can ever do for your son is take care of yourself as much as possible, and what will make him feel most happy and comforted and good is your well being and that you get well.

god, do I know it is hard and it may seem just impossible to you right now, and I don’t blame you, and it’s even OK if you feel that way, and I don’t expect you to think positively, and listen to a bunch of advice that you cannot relate to, understandably.

I am glad you told us how badly you are doing, because that is a first step, right? Take care, kiddo, I’ll come back here later. Katrin

PS: I am a single mother and a nurse

When I was in my early twenties, I was driving through the country with my father, and the subject of suicide came up, although more indirectly. I should add that I was extremely close to my father, always.

So this is what he tells me, and I was as little prepared for this as anyone of you would/will be…the words that came out of his mouth.

He said, that if I committed suicide, that would make him slightly sad, maybe, but not a lot, and that his life would go on as always; that my suicide would not really at all affect his life. (He was not angry, or in anyway emotional when he said this, and I could tell from his body language, and just knowing him well, that he really meant what he said.)

At first I was sort of stunned, like I thought that maybe I had not heard correctly. I was in such disbelief that it took me a while to even feel hurt by what he said.

Oh, and then he said that his adopted son from his first marriage, and who was not his biologically but rather his wives from an earlier marriage, had shot himself, (and I was aware of this), and that when he did do this, he, (my father) also did not suffer greatly about that loss and his life went on as usual. (and with those words, the conversation ended, or rather we switched to another subject)

We were still driving together silently for quite a while, minding our own business, when something strange happened inside of me, and this was as unexpected as the words my father had told me earlier.

I felt totally relieved about everything, and so glad my father had told me his side of the story, because he was basically giving me his blessing that I ought not feel concerned or guilty about what it would do to him if I killed myself, and which was rather nothing. I felt so free and so glad, and now I really could do it, right? But I also lost interest with all those words said, as there really was no longer such a pressing reason, either.

My father’s word’s, and my subsequent realization, business cured me. (not edited)

PS: I never said to him that this was what I was planning on doing, but he must have sensed the idea, and which already surprised me greatly by itself.

By the time we separated that day, we were OK with each other, totally!

(I didn’t tell this for it’s moral value but only for the value of what was my experience, and which was pretty unbelievable, and this is not an isolated case where an experience ….tired)

I just watched the last 15 minutes of a show on HBO 2 tonight (Wed Aug 5, 2009) that ended at 9:30 PM, and I just offer to anyone seriously contemplating suicide to find out what the show is and watch it, and especially the end, because that is the legacy and how depression jades and discolors the truth in one’s life.

And it is very painful to watch, so be prepared.

Sorry I did not think about it until after forwarding the above post: Boy Interrupted, on from 8-9:30PM on HBO 2.

I lead a very lonely life, suicide always comes to my thoughts. I know the amount of people that it will affect (family..no frinds at all), but they in their way have put me in this position (no blame though). When and if i do take the jump,pill or whatever… i know ill be doing it for me. I ve done the counciling stuff and all that, and am trying to improve muself so i can fit in this world but sometimes it just seems too daungting.
I dont have bipolar or any other medical ailment, but i do know that im lonely and alone…and at 35 that dosnt bode well for the future.
lots of arguments here about those who you left behind, but what about the individual that had the pain….? wheres his/her feelings (i know i cant ask!!) just remember when you tell them to get help etc, it sometimes just isnt the fix thats required.

What is the fix that is required? What do you need?

if only i knew

I have NEVER had issues with depression. But slowly the physical pain I am in is making me realize that I am a useless being.

What good am I doing laying in bed crying all day?

The pain medicine is hardly working, the pain is too severe to stand.. I do not know how much longer I can take it.

I may be a burden upon my family in death.. but I am quite a burden upon them in life as well.

I have had a number of sessions with a counselor for my anxiety, which also involved depression because of a breakup. The counselor suggested a book by Father Anthony de Mello, a Catholic priest from India. In his book, “Why We Love,” he said that friends and things cannot make us happy. That was key for me. Even people with lots of friends get depressed. Each of us has to be happy with our own individual person.

I saw where I went wrong; I depended on another person for my happiness. We cannot do that.

The way this society enforces its will even to the point of denying people in pain a way to end their lives with dignity represents a selfishness and arrogance that is utterly astounding.

Euthanasia should be a right - to anyone after due consideration.

Yes, it hurts the people around you, but to those of you who claim your departed loved ones left you with ten million times the amount of pain just come off as selfish in the extreme.

I do not mean to belittle or scorn your grief but please try to understand that what you are expressing is an attempt to enforce your own desires upon someone else - even to the point of trying to control how and when they die.

It is their decision. Not yours.

With that out of the way,Personally;

I’m successful, I provide for my family but there is no meaning in it. I exist solely for the purposes of others. Is it in any way fair that I am to be constrained in this miserable lifestyle just because people feel like I literally owe them MY LIFE?

I do not like the society I live in, I don’t like many of the people I’m surrounded by and above all else, I don’t like myself. Therapy sessions, medications…hobbies and interests… they all become simple distractions. Reaching out to people doesn’t always work and it is foolish to claim that it will work in 100% of cases.

It is possible to tie up people endlessly chasing some form of cure or another, referring them from psychiatrist to psychologist, playing russian roulette with antidepressants- but their feelings about life, and the entire structure of their minds are sometimes things that are set in them from birth, maybe even possibly before birth. The uncomfortable truth is that there are simply people around who do not want to live.

Why do we force them to, surely this is the ultimate form of incarceration?

i have been trying my hardest to find my path. there is no light at the end of the tunnel that im in unfortunately. couselling hasnt helped…only made my feelings worse…go figure!!
time for me to move and and give somebody else a crack…..lifes a bitch then you die!
later

I won’t go into details about my own struggle with this issue. What I really want to know is: Where is all this help everyone tells you is out there?? I have bipolar disorder but I haven’t received an actual “diagnosis”. I didn’t make it far enough with the therapist for him to commit to it, he said. I have no health insurance now. How is someone like me suppose to get help when they don’t want to feel this way? One big factor for me is knowing I will never be able to get treatment for what is making me miserable. So it stands to reason the misery itself is permanent. Who in their right mind would want to live that life?

Hi - I found this site because I typed into google, “PTSD + parental suicide”. I don’t know why it popped up but it did. My father took his own life over 27 years ago when I was just about to turn 12. I believe I have lived in survival mode ever since, on red alert, fearful in the world, insecure and since my mother died 2 years ago, the anxiety has at times turned to numbness, darkness with no hope, emptiness and lack of any meaning. Parents are important, not only to young children but always, connection to our humanity is is important and its not easy to be human these days, to feel the permission to feel depressive thoughts, it is not encouraged that feelings and thoughts do change, there is no faith in the power of feeling connected, belonging and good enough just as you are to others. I believe there is a great deal of seperateness in our world today, judgement and un-acceptability.

I do believe that people have the right to choose to take their own life but the effects on others of suicide, if sudden and un-expected are devastating, the legacy for me seems to be that I do not trust life, have a hard time making it work for me - my role models didn’t talk about the hard bits and certainly didn’t make it through them. I wish my father had spoken to me (I know this is un-likely) but the mystery, the cut offness of no-one expecting this makes me feel really sad, that his choice, his existence was somehow not real - that he was never truely in the world.

it is worth being in the world, awake, not asleep and I do think I understand living in a hald-dead state is almost no better than not having life. But please, think about expressing yourself to those that love you, in some way, even if you are fearful.Even if you dont understand what is going on, even if you have no hope, you are here and if all you have is to express your experience, this is valid, it is real for you and i encourage it from my corner of the globe.

I want to die ! Not to die but to rest , my head my body my emotions I want to switch them all off. Why you
may ask , all I can ever remember int life is a need to be accepted and loved for me. Always tried to be what someone else wanted me to be just for the love and acceptance , I am nearly 40 now and still I strive for them I feel like a triangle in a world of squares I feel as I have watched my life from some one else eyes critising and pulling apart every gesture every word every action I have ever made all as to not hurt anyone as they have hurt me over the years I wish I did not care about anyone feelings or what they thought of me but I do and it confuses me even more even now I want to die I worry my children will hate me but I just can’t go on no more and if I don’t take my own life my life will take me evantually as it so bad from as far back as I can remember to all the people who have crossed my path all the people I looked for good in, and found none you all have my blood on your hands I gave nor to recieve but I gave because I thought you was like me and I was wrong cos if you was you could not of hurt me disrespected me or abused me physically mentally or emotionally but you did and once again I was let down . I wish for happiness I wish for love I wish to be understood and I wish some one would hear me. Godbless. X

I was married for 23 years, during that time i committed adultery numerous times… (what a creep i know), we are now divorce and the guilt and shame of my actions are with me everyday. my 2 children want absoulty nothing to do with me. My ex hates me with such a passion and says that she want me dead…. So i sit here trying to find a reason to live, I have no reason to live no more for the pain that I have caused to my family. I dont know if I will be here tomorrow but I will say this, my sin has killed me and I will kill me.. the guilt and shame is endless for i deserve death for all the pain I have caused…….

nobody deserves death and everyone has done things that they are ashamed of. And who’s to say if you had to creep then that says that there was something you were not getting at home. And as far as your kids they will come around, and stop feeling so guilty as they grow up they will experience things that will help them understand you better.trust me I know now what my mother went through and why she divorced my dad happiness.

I had depression when I was a teenager. I was sexually abused as a child and molested through Grammar School, because I was different. The only thing worse at that time was, that I knew I couldn’t commit suicide. Every time I attempted to end my life I stopped at shallow cuts. Luckily my life has changed (which doesen’t mean I don’t fancy death at times). I still want to escape sometimes, but I will never take that path knowing there are other alternatives.

TOM: Sins can be forgiven

I’m willing to listen to everyone of you. If you need to be heard, feel free to contact me (I’ll keep on reading the posts). I will keep you in my prayers.

This will be very long, but I think it shows you how suicide isn’t so bad or selfish. Suicide is absolutely my answer - I am just having trouble having the guts to do it only because it can never be re-taken. If you do it right you never get another chance.

I was born and raised catholic, and I am surrounded by a number of people who love me. However, I am seeing some of those who I considered to be close to me starting to walk away even though I still act the same as always. I’ve never even cried once. I grew up lower/middle class where I could never even treat myself to a $100 purchase without having to put it on a credit card and pay interest. The house I grew up in was built brand new (2000 sq ft) nice in appearance but 5 years later my parents almost lost everything (but didn’t lose the house) with a failed business. My mom had to go back to work for the first time in 17 years to save our family via health benefits. This shamed my dad since all their peers (family and friends in their age group) had made big money and were climbing fast - no wives worked. Although these people were kind and gracious my parents still could not associate with them anymore……Ultra-expensive dinners, vacations, etc. So it was only the money that omitted my parents from this group, and this crushed them. Again, the people were nice enough but my parents weren’t going to go out with them and be the token “charity case”. My dad fell over with his very first heart attack at age 55 and died. This devasted us with constant tears and deep sadness.

Simultaneously, I was continuing to make good money, and I knew how happy that made him before he died and while he was in “heaven”. I would be able to look and seem successful - and my mom would be proud as would the many extended family members who place emphasis on money as a real man’s worthiness. Yet, these same people go to church every Sunday so they must be Jesus-like, right? At my financial peak in ‘03 I had a high level of net worth and no debt anywhere in sight. I have now lost all of it and am in six-figure debt on top of it - collection calls, visits etc.. I put anything I could in the house rehab of a traditional neighborhood in one of the most well-known and established cities in America. The house hit the mill$ mark in ‘03 and my siblings and I thought how great it is to keep this in the family for generations. The value has crashed so far that I’ve lost all $$.

Plus, before that happened I opened up a 2nd business as i saw real potential. I could not have even predicted (in my worst estimation) that the business could have done that bad- I was out of there in 18 months, losing far more than I envisioned. Moreover, the first business,which made me quite successful at one time, now suffered via a corporate giant that opened 500 feet away (yes - that close). It’s worse that this happened 10 months after I bought out my partner’s share in the business. I would have been able to give him nothing for it had we known that the business would have faced adjacent competition - after 10 years of us being in business there.

I truly admire the words of “Mur” because they don’t blame others for where they are. Mur said it right in that you can notice the people in your life having less to say to you because they are so uncomf with what has become (in my case) an impoverished life and getting worse. Every employer checks credit reports now unless you are, say, delivering pizza - and no that wasn’t meant to be insulting. I’m just saying that with my bad credit, and nothing more than a Bach degree from ‘90, I have no option except to live with my mom and probably file bruptcy.

Why? because it would take me 20 years to repay this debt and thats if I did it aggressively via high paying job. Think about this- I knew by age 28 that my anxiety and fear is so bad in my life that there is no way I should ever have children. Wouldn’t it be such a waste to NOT commit suicide when I have the perfect set up as a single adult whose now 41? Carbon Monoxide in the garage, and take something beforehand to make you extremely drowsy. Put a soothing cd in the car stereo and before dawn - presto, you are gone.

There would be plenty of notes to leave and that would take a couple of weeks - fine. Mail them, say, on a Tue morn and go out to the garage late that night. By Wed at 6 am, I have no more debt, no more pity from people, no painful realization of the fact that between 2 bad investment choices and an unprecedented tragic economy, I lost everything plus hundreds of thousands in debt.

Like “Mur” said, you need to realize that even those who love you most have their own lives to worry about and you can’t expect these people to have special daily time set aside for you. I really like that point because I would like all of you to think of yourselves for a moment, too. If someone you loved was really in a horrible depression, how much would you help them?

I know I would do all I could but then I would start getting annoyed if they would start calling me late while crying, or showing up at my door crying etc etc. Again, as sympathetic as I am I would tell them to get help at this point -so I do know that I have become a burden to people now. Do you want to throw me the old “Oh, Kevin you just want people to feel sorry for you for how they treated you”.

Guess what? At 41, nothing could be further from the truth. For what it’s worth I have had a blast at all 4 of my class reunions, and no one who truly was cruel to me during HS was even close to that behavior by graduation June ‘86, let alone at reunions. That’s why a teenager taking their life seems so wrong as they haven’t lived long enough yet.

Why haven’t I mentioned going therapy for help? Is it because I never tried it? My God, there is an on/off paper trail of psychologists going back to ‘84. As for psychiatrists (they are just there to prescribe meds) this goes back to ‘94. As it stands, the 7th medication attempt is the first one that ever helped. But, it doesn’t help enough. As for the actual counseling - what a joke. I have been through 8 therapists. Let me tell you….just by meeting them for the first time, as long as you shake their hand and look them in the eye as you introduce yourself and have a neat clean appearance, they can’t take your problem(s) very seriously. Why? Imagine Ally Sheedy’s role at the very beginning of the Breakfst Club movie - that’s what they are used to seeing - except people much older than her who act that way. You seem like a very minor case to them if you are pretty functional.

The therapist I am seeing now is so hung up on the fact that I once had money (this man is very wealthy) that he actually said the following: I told him about a dynamic successful long time friend of mine who makes $150,000 per year, and my therapist said “Now, that’s somebody who you should stay close to - you need to stay in his back pocket”. So even my therapist is basically a smug money-grubbing person who looks down on the lower class. I say this because of other comments I’ve heard that didn’t offend me- but I remember them. This wealthy friend of min e has become uncomf and cringing of my situation so I can’t stay close w/ him - he is fading gradually, but I’m not blaming him.

I need to swallow more pride here to get me out of this…living w mom for 2 years, filing bruptcy, women who seem to like me get disinterested when they know I’m unemployed even though I say it as “cool” as one could without seeming panicked or happy. Yet - they walk from it without words, so imagine if they knew the FULL PICTURE nightmare of my finances. Again, like “Mur” I don’t begrudge these women as that’s just how it is - we must be accountable for our decisions and mistakes - don’t blame others. Between relatives, friends, and acquaintances, there are about 500 people who would be shocked. About 400 of these people are those I might only discuss the weather with as I only see them once every 12-18 months. Another 60 people I know more in depth - but I need to be careful to not embarass the family or my pride, so there are limits with what I say or admit. The last 40 are those close to me in varying degrees.

Just like some of you have already said, it’s just as selfish for people to expect you to stay alive when there is no hope for you, as it is to end everything - and act in your favor. We have different problems….but here is what my suicide would mean for me:

1) All debt is gone- and it’s only in my name so they can’t go after anyone else.

2) The emotional pain of how I lost a huge net worth is now done.

3) Realizing that women I’m interested in don’t want me because of the financial mistakes I made goes away.

4) The slow learner I am at positions I’ve had caused a real uproar in corporate america. I was transferred twice (at work) to other cities due to my nervousness and tendency to panic. So it’s not like it was “all in my head”.

5) Self-employment was my answer to not dealing with #4 above but even there I felt uncomf dealing with any slow employees because I know how sensitive they were - since I’m that way. Since I came off as patronizing, I have a few ex-employees who hate and dis-respect me all because i was trying not to be an asshole WASP type of businessman. Although I’m a nice person with a funny and original sense of humor, I am too weak and fearful and ashamed to be able to stay here. I refuse to be homeless or be the old guy who lives with his mom.

In one 4 hour session of running my car while I’m asleep, this all goes away. The notes that everyone will receive from me (40 or so people would get these) will absolutely emphasize thanks to them and how much I loved them and that there was nothing more they could do, so don’t feel guilty. Yes, this was lengthy but I think it shows that suicide can work. I would do this far from the holidays and far from Mother’s day just so there is no sadness of affiliation with my death. Just the thought of getting out of this place called life is euphoric - think of the tingling excitement of being a young kid on the last day of school and all of us kids would be counting the seconds/minutes till that last bell will ring, signifying the start of summer vacation.

It’s me - Kevin, again. After reading my story, I forgot to mention one key detail. The woman I was in a relationship with for 2 1/2 years broke up with me 5 months ago. No, I am not leaving out any key parts of the story like I stole from her or hit her. Nothing could be further from the truth. She would say the same.

The fact is both of us always had credit scores in the 780-820 bracket and it was killing her to watch me with two failed businesses and mounting debt. She cried when we broke up apologizing that it’s just too hard to be in this kind of a relationship at 40 (her age). It’s too hard to watch me spiraling down the type of financial nightmare that college grads normally deal with when they finish their doctorates - but at least they climb out within 2 years of their profession. Most of my family and friends loved her which is why they really are somewhat backing away now - they don’t know what to say. I must repeat that it’s not their job to say anything so I am not bitter at them or my ex.

While I could fall in love with a woman who drives an older used car and makes 15K per year, a woman will not typically love a man in the same spot. That’s just how it is - nobody’s fault. It will be this way the rest of my life unless living with my mom……hence suicide.

Bipolar disorder is not a “personality style!” It is a neurological mental illness. Please don’t perpetuate these types of misinformation about a serious illness.

Kevin - I read your posts, rational, thought out and make sense, what about the next story line? Can you see that the story line you are in at the moment could end - without taking your life. A new one begin, that you dont even know about yet. Perhaps an ending is needed, but perhaps there are other ways. I am an aspiring writer and much of what I want to write is about what I percieve as the unacceptables in life, the things we dont say, the lives and twists and turns of fate that somehow make us “unacceptable” - your writing sounds like this theme is driving your plan of how to deal with it. Why not carry on writing? Your writing seemed very real and true to me and may take you out of this place, without actually ending your life. Your point about not being selfish comes across that you dont see your self this way, it sounds as though you are a kind person, but what about what you bring to other peoples lives - even if you think you dont? I enjoyed your writing, honesty and truth and i am sure you have more to say and share that makes the world make more sense to you - beyond the norms and acceptablility. Sally

Kevin, it’s Sally again - the context with which I write and live is that my father took his own life when I was only 12 and I am sure he would have had a rational and quite reasonable explanation - he was intelligent, successful but I think he thought it was all a game, life - the success! I will never know, as he did not write anything or speak of anything, but I have lived with the shame and unacceptability from others all my life - it has made me a better person in a way - but it sure did make me an outsider too. I resonate with your situation, I resonate with the option you feel you have and indeed you do - but I also hold a new thought, that there ARE different ways to live, it is hard to go against the expectations and storylines laid out for us of what is safe and secure but perhaps that never suited you and with a new way, your fear and anxiety will cease. I believe that LIBERATION can come in life as well as death and I miss my fathers spirit on the earth too much to believe he should have left. Sally

I wish I’d found this while Mur was still posting. And Kevin. And Elsa. Not to “talk you out of it,” but because your experiences resonate so strongly with me.

I’m a 43-year-old female, 2 days left on disability for major depression/anxiety/panic attacks/social phobia. No health insurance (I live in California) so I can’t afford the meds or more importantly the psychiatrist and therapist appointments. I paid cash, and always paid. My last visit, my therapist gave me numbers for low-cost therapy, and wished me well for getting back to work. Knowing I am still debilitated by fear and self-loathing. When he talked to my psychiatrist (finally, after 10 months of therapy) 2 months ago, to help me get more time, he “got the impression” that she would not give me any more time. I know her office has a three-month limit on disability. So if you don’t get better in 3 months you are SOL. Silly me. Didn’t get better on schedule. I would go 5150, but that would drain the last teeny bit of money we have and REALLY make things worse. So I guess I am too functional to be on disability. The thought of going back to another office fills me with such fear and dread - I guess I shouldn’t worry, if I died of a heart attack it wouldn’t be suicide and nobody would feel guilty!

I don’t have any children. That is a source of pain for me, but fading - at least I don’t have to feel guilty for being a bad mother. I do have cats whom I love as children, but often I think that if my body could be ground and frozen I would be more valuable as months worth of cat food than I am as a stupid, fat, nervous, self-absorbed useless broken cog left over from the meaningless offices I’ve worked in.

People do love me. I have a wonderful family. My sisters have children, and houses, and happy productive lives. My parents have always been supportive and proud of this loser. I have an extraordinary, loving man in my life, and amazing friends who know and accept me as I am, and love me. Everything wrong is in my head. But it’s ALWAYS there, stabbing at me, reminding me of my worthlessness and whininess and stupid stupid inability to fulfill what used to be potential. When it gets really bad, I start hitting myself in the head, hard, to try to shut it up. I feed so bad for my man, because he’s the only one who’s seen that, but sometimes I just can’t stand myself.

I will probably never kill myself, because I can’t afford enough therapy to be that selfish. Funny, huh? I hope Mur realized that suicide negates most life insurance payouts. They think of everything. Stay alive, because it’s what good people do. Stay productive, because the rich need their peons. (last 2 sentences = dripping sarcasm in case it wasn’t clear.)

I really wish Elsa and Mur and Kevin were here, but there are others of you whose writing touched me too. Please talk to me. It helps so much to not feel alone in my head. It helps to feel like someone else. It would help to help someone else feel less alone too.

…and Christina Webb and Suzanne and anna. Silver, maybe? I wonder why I can’t get anywhere when I click on the few whose names are links.