<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Antidepressant Data Showed Not as Effective as Thought</title>
	<atom:link href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/</link>
	<description>Dr. John Grohol&#039;s daily update on all things in psychology and mental health. Since 1999.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 02:27:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: Antidepressants and Placebos &#171; Marmalade</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-633710</link>
		<dc:creator>Antidepressants and Placebos &#171; Marmalade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-633710</guid>
		<description>[...] http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thou... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thou.." rel="nofollow">http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thou..</a>. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Placebo Response Persists in Depression - World of Psychology</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-554910</link>
		<dc:creator>Placebo Response Persists in Depression - World of Psychology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-554910</guid>
		<description>[...] I commented on the study at the time suggesting that while adding to our understanding of antidepressant medications, it was hardly without faults. Other meta-analyses published since then support antidepressants&#8217; effectiveness in older adults (Nelson et. al., 2008) and present a more mixed picture for long-term use (Deshauer et. al., 2008). With over 1,000 clinical studies conducted in the past few decades on the effectiveness of antidepressant medications, it&#8217;s hard to throw all that research out the window as &#8220;biased&#8221; or without value in adding to our knowledge and understanding. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I commented on the study at the time suggesting that while adding to our understanding of antidepressant medications, it was hardly without faults. Other meta-analyses published since then support antidepressants&#8217; effectiveness in older adults (Nelson et. al., 2008) and present a more mixed picture for long-term use (Deshauer et. al., 2008). With over 1,000 clinical studies conducted in the past few decades on the effectiveness of antidepressant medications, it&#8217;s hard to throw all that research out the window as &#8220;biased&#8221; or without value in adding to our knowledge and understanding. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Good Enough Mom &#187; Health alternatives</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-443398</link>
		<dc:creator>Good Enough Mom &#187; Health alternatives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-443398</guid>
		<description>[...] The controversy around chelation is that it’s not been shown in research to be better than placebo, according to some folks. The real issue I have is the heavy handedness of pharmaceutical companies to push through other drugs that don’t work as well as some would have you think. Does this treatment not work, or is there just enough influence to keep the scale tipped in the favor of Big Pharm? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The controversy around chelation is that it’s not been shown in research to be better than placebo, according to some folks. The real issue I have is the heavy handedness of pharmaceutical companies to push through other drugs that don’t work as well as some would have you think. Does this treatment not work, or is there just enough influence to keep the scale tipped in the favor of Big Pharm? [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GregRogers</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429953</link>
		<dc:creator>GregRogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429953</guid>
		<description>Seems natural that the drug companies don&#039;t publish the negative results. Also it seems quite clear that even the studies with positive results are not indicating large positive effects from these medications. Nobody&#039;s going from say a 2 to an 8 on a 10 point scale of how good they feel. They are generally showing something like the difference between a 2 and a 6, where a placebo gives you from 2 to 5. So not much. Same kind of results are true for talking therapies - and this despite the fact that many of the studies involve clinicians essentially rating themselves on how much they think they helped their clients.

I say that in the end it is each individual consumer of therapy and/or medication that must be the judge of what is working for that individual. If it&#039;s not working, they need to try somebody/something else until hopefully they can find something that works.

It is clear from the data that relying on the quantitative studies isn&#039;t going tell any individual what is going to work in their particular situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems natural that the drug companies don&#8217;t publish the negative results. Also it seems quite clear that even the studies with positive results are not indicating large positive effects from these medications. Nobody&#8217;s going from say a 2 to an 8 on a 10 point scale of how good they feel. They are generally showing something like the difference between a 2 and a 6, where a placebo gives you from 2 to 5. So not much. Same kind of results are true for talking therapies &#8211; and this despite the fact that many of the studies involve clinicians essentially rating themselves on how much they think they helped their clients.</p>
<p>I say that in the end it is each individual consumer of therapy and/or medication that must be the judge of what is working for that individual. If it&#8217;s not working, they need to try somebody/something else until hopefully they can find something that works.</p>
<p>It is clear from the data that relying on the quantitative studies isn&#8217;t going tell any individual what is going to work in their particular situation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 314159pi</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429532</link>
		<dc:creator>314159pi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429532</guid>
		<description>i think the reason this sort of data has not come out before is that it is in no one&#039;s interest to do so. Certainly not in the interests of Big Pharma or the patients who take these drugs successfully. I can imagine a scenario however where articles like this one could be misused by health insurance companies to deny services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think the reason this sort of data has not come out before is that it is in no one&#8217;s interest to do so. Certainly not in the interests of Big Pharma or the patients who take these drugs successfully. I can imagine a scenario however where articles like this one could be misused by health insurance companies to deny services.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429400</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429400</guid>
		<description>Give me a few days to look up a few that would be of the greatest interest.

Upon further reflection, and seeing how most media outlets are spinning this story (exactly as the authors wrote), I find this the most troubling sentence in the study:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Given these data, there seems little evidence to support the prescription of antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed to provide benefit.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This simply is not true as the statement stands. The authors&#039; study did not look at *all* antidepressant medication, nor even all SSRIs. It also only looked at data at one point in time, the most recent study nearly 19 years ago. 

It&#039;s no wonder the media are taking the study at face value, based upon the authors&#039; own statements and publishing stories like, &quot;Anti-depression drugs don&#039;t work,&quot; and &quot;Depression drugs no better than placebo.&quot; That&#039;s not what this study actually showed, no matter what the authors say they showed. 

This kind of fear-mongering and black-and-white, limited-attention span writing is what is so infuriating to watch. Out of more than 2 dozen articles I&#039;ve read talking about this study, I could find not a single one that actually talked about the study&#039;s limitations. Instead, it&#039;s just all talking-heads -- the authors on one side, the drug reps on the other. What about the &quot;truth?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give me a few days to look up a few that would be of the greatest interest.</p>
<p>Upon further reflection, and seeing how most media outlets are spinning this story (exactly as the authors wrote), I find this the most troubling sentence in the study:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Given these data, there seems little evidence to support the prescription of antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed to provide benefit.
</p></blockquote>
<p>This simply is not true as the statement stands. The authors&#8217; study did not look at *all* antidepressant medication, nor even all SSRIs. It also only looked at data at one point in time, the most recent study nearly 19 years ago. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s no wonder the media are taking the study at face value, based upon the authors&#8217; own statements and publishing stories like, &#8220;Anti-depression drugs don&#8217;t work,&#8221; and &#8220;Depression drugs no better than placebo.&#8221; That&#8217;s not what this study actually showed, no matter what the authors say they showed. </p>
<p>This kind of fear-mongering and black-and-white, limited-attention span writing is what is so infuriating to watch. Out of more than 2 dozen articles I&#8217;ve read talking about this study, I could find not a single one that actually talked about the study&#8217;s limitations. Instead, it&#8217;s just all talking-heads &#8212; the authors on one side, the drug reps on the other. What about the &#8220;truth?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sandy</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429307</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429307</guid>
		<description>What are the most relevant clinical trials that have been published since 1999 that you think should be considered when weighing this study?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the most relevant clinical trials that have been published since 1999 that you think should be considered when weighing this study?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429275</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429275</guid>
		<description>Most importantly, though, I don&#039;t think this study is the &quot;final word&quot; on any particular SSRI&#039;s effectiveness in treating depression. Antidepressants are effective (especially when they&#039;re prescribed as a part of a comprehensive treatment plan), it&#039;s just that their efficacy may not be as great as we were all led to believe...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most importantly, though, I don&#8217;t think this study is the &#8220;final word&#8221; on any particular SSRI&#8217;s effectiveness in treating depression. Antidepressants are effective (especially when they&#8217;re prescribed as a part of a comprehensive treatment plan), it&#8217;s just that their efficacy may not be as great as we were all led to believe&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429255</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Grohol, Psy.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429255</guid>
		<description>Yes, indeed that is an interesting point. But I think that&#039;s a strange decision for the original researchers to have made, given that the response time in most patients for an SSRI antidepressant averages from 2 to 4 weeks. Meaning that the researchers weren&#039;t even giving patients&#039; bodies time to feel the therapeutic effects of medications in these 6 studies where this was done. 

A more interesting question, too, might be why does it take us nearly 20 years to learn about these things? This data has been available, so why has it taken so long to get at these findings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, indeed that is an interesting point. But I think that&#8217;s a strange decision for the original researchers to have made, given that the response time in most patients for an SSRI antidepressant averages from 2 to 4 weeks. Meaning that the researchers weren&#8217;t even giving patients&#8217; bodies time to feel the therapeutic effects of medications in these 6 studies where this was done. </p>
<p>A more interesting question, too, might be why does it take us nearly 20 years to learn about these things? This data has been available, so why has it taken so long to get at these findings?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elizabeth Pisani</title>
		<link>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/antidepressant-data-showed-not-as-effective-as-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-429236</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Pisani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psychcentral.com/blog/?p=1947#comment-429236</guid>
		<description>You make sound points about what gets included in the FDA decision-making process. But one of the things that interested me most about the PLoS paper was the insights that it gave into how the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/02/26/prozac-doesnt-work/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; inclusion/exclusion criteria&lt;/a&gt; for some of the trials were used to stack the results in favour of the drug manufacturers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make sound points about what gets included in the FDA decision-making process. But one of the things that interested me most about the PLoS paper was the insights that it gave into how the <a href="http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/02/26/prozac-doesnt-work/" rel="nofollow"> inclusion/exclusion criteria</a> for some of the trials were used to stack the results in favour of the drug manufacturers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced
Database Caching using disk: basic
Object Caching 425/429 objects using disk: basic
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: CloudFront: g.psychcentral.com

Served from: psychcentral.com @ 2012-05-26 02:03:55 -->
