Comments on: Mental Health Stigma Alive and Well in Virginia http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/ Dr. John Grohol's daily update on all things in psychology and mental health. Since 1999. Fri, 25 May 2012 15:58:44 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tracy Andrew http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-203677 Tracy Andrew Mon, 14 May 2007 11:52:19 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-203677 The media made such coverage of the terrible events. I DO so wish that the politicians would talk to "the people" before continuing to label, add further stigama, pain. NOT ALL ill people want to hurt others!!! I hope that the Dr. Grohl's of the world, NIMA and many others would talk to the President in relation to looking at all the factors that will impact a mentally ill citizen. I agree with the constitional rights of people. Laws protect, not endanger, right? Also funding for mental health in most states are very poor. This should be MUCH more of a priority than only gun control. The media made such coverage of the terrible events. I DO so wish that the politicians would talk to “the people” before continuing to label, add further stigama, pain. NOT ALL ill people want to hurt others!!! I hope that the Dr. Grohl’s of the world, NIMA and many others would talk to the President in relation to looking at all the factors that will impact a mentally ill citizen.

I agree with the constitional rights of people. Laws protect, not endanger, right?
Also funding for mental health in most states are very poor. This should be MUCH more of a priority than only gun control.

]]> By: Patricia Lefave http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-202485 Patricia Lefave Thu, 10 May 2007 19:46:28 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-202485 Thnaks for pointing out the dark side of this unseen reality. Will put excerpt and link on my own blog Thnaks for pointing out the dark side of this unseen reality. Will put excerpt and link on my own blog

]]> By: Les Feldman http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-201519 Les Feldman Mon, 07 May 2007 17:48:21 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-201519 How about some publicity about the robust connection between severe autism and schizophrenia and advanced paternal age at the time of conception? See a paper on the internet called: Schizophrenia Risk and the Paternal Germ Line By Dolores Malaspina How about some publicity about the robust connection between severe autism and schizophrenia and advanced paternal age at the time of conception? See a paper on the internet called: Schizophrenia Risk and the Paternal Germ Line
By Dolores Malaspina

]]> By: Ian Mandleberg http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-200241 Ian Mandleberg Thu, 03 May 2007 15:48:18 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-200241 As a non-American, and as a counsellor, I wonder if I can be allowed my 2-cents'-worth on the Virginia shooting? Rather than infringe the shaky rights of the mentally ill, might it not be better to amend the US Constitution instead? Not as easy, obviously, as picking off a defenceless mentally ill target, but surely more equitable if EVERYONE's rights are curtailed? Ian Mandleberg As a non-American, and as a counsellor, I wonder if I can be allowed my 2-cents’-worth on the Virginia shooting? Rather than infringe the shaky rights of the mentally ill, might it not be better to amend the US Constitution instead? Not as easy, obviously, as picking off a defenceless mentally ill target, but surely more equitable if EVERYONE’s rights are curtailed?

Ian Mandleberg

]]> By: Claire http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-200153 Claire Thu, 03 May 2007 08:45:34 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-200153 Dr. Grohol, You said, "I just believe that nobody’s rights should be taken away from them unless you have clear and concrete proof that there’s some sort of causative relationship." Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This database will not protect society. What it will do is prevent thousands of people with mental illness from ever holding a job. More and more jobs now require a background check. If those of you who are so gung ho for this database think it's only going to be accessed for those purchasing a gun then you are sadly mistaken. Is a database going to prevent school shootings? Look at the other school shootings. Did those people purchase their guns from a gun shop? No. They got them from relatives, they stole them, etc. Would the database have prevented Columbine? Or what aboout the guy who shot his colleague at the Johnson Space Center? This database WILL NOT prevent a person who is determined to murder people from finding a way to get a gun. So, thanks Dr. Grohol for bringing some common sense to the table. Dr. Grohol,

You said, “I just believe that nobody’s rights should be taken away from them unless you have clear and concrete proof that there’s some sort of causative relationship.” Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This database will not protect society. What it will do is prevent thousands of people with mental illness from ever holding a job. More and more jobs now require a background check. If those of you who are so gung ho for this database think it’s only going to be accessed for those purchasing a gun then you are sadly mistaken.

Is a database going to prevent school shootings? Look at the other school shootings. Did those people purchase their guns from a gun shop? No. They got them from relatives, they stole them, etc. Would the database have prevented Columbine? Or what aboout the guy who shot his colleague at the Johnson Space Center? This database WILL NOT prevent a person who is determined to murder people from finding a way to get a gun.

So, thanks Dr. Grohol for bringing some common sense to the table.

]]> By: John M. Grohol, Psy.D. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-200020 John M. Grohol, Psy.D. Wed, 02 May 2007 23:54:39 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-200020 My membership in an given organization shouldn't be relevant to any argument I make, but no, I'm not a member of the NRA nor do I own a gun. I just believe that nobody's rights should be taken away from them unless you have clear and concrete proof that there's some sort of causative relationship. To date, we don't have that here. We have an expected knee-jerk political reaction to a tragic situation, a reaction that happily violates the rights of people who often have no one to stand up for them or to speak for them. I would start by looking at the social systems we have today and how they may be enhanced or otherwise tweaked to better serve people in need. I would look at how students are cared for in this time of great emotional and personality development in their lives, or if they're cared for at all in any systematic manner. I certianly don't have all the answers, nor have I ever claimed to. But one of my first answers wouldn't be to simply start removing Constitutional rights of my citizens without data that supports that such a move would make any bit of difference in preventing a future tragedy such as this. For example, in this case, I would ask hard questions about the executive order -- Would it really be all that difficult to purchase a gun illegally, from a gun show, from a private seller online, from out-of-state, etc.? If the answer to these questions is, "No, and this executive order does nothing to stop someone from purchasing a gun in any of these various manners," I'd say that's a pretty empty gesture by a politician who acted only to further his own interests. Again, trying to fit nice triangular irrational behaviors into nice triangular rational holes doesn't work. If someone is acting irrationally in the manner Cho was, would a law really do anything to stop him? No. Only another human being had that ability, and while some tried in this case, none had enough information to understand the seriousness of his issues. My membership in an given organization shouldn’t be relevant to any argument I make, but no, I’m not a member of the NRA nor do I own a gun. I just believe that nobody’s rights should be taken away from them unless you have clear and concrete proof that there’s some sort of causative relationship. To date, we don’t have that here. We have an expected knee-jerk political reaction to a tragic situation, a reaction that happily violates the rights of people who often have no one to stand up for them or to speak for them.

I would start by looking at the social systems we have today and how they may be enhanced or otherwise tweaked to better serve people in need. I would look at how students are cared for in this time of great emotional and personality development in their lives, or if they’re cared for at all in any systematic manner.

I certianly don’t have all the answers, nor have I ever claimed to. But one of my first answers wouldn’t be to simply start removing Constitutional rights of my citizens without data that supports that such a move would make any bit of difference in preventing a future tragedy such as this. For example, in this case, I would ask hard questions about the executive order — Would it really be all that difficult to purchase a gun illegally, from a gun show, from a private seller online, from out-of-state, etc.?

If the answer to these questions is, “No, and this executive order does nothing to stop someone from purchasing a gun in any of these various manners,” I’d say that’s a pretty empty gesture by a politician who acted only to further his own interests.

Again, trying to fit nice triangular irrational behaviors into nice triangular rational holes doesn’t work. If someone is acting irrationally in the manner Cho was, would a law really do anything to stop him? No. Only another human being had that ability, and while some tried in this case, none had enough information to understand the seriousness of his issues.

]]> By: Mary http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199942 Mary Wed, 02 May 2007 19:03:36 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199942 Dr. Grohol, I must say I am astonished at your viewpoint. I am, by the way, a psychotherapist in private practice who has taught (college) for years against stigmitizing those labelled with mental disorders. But currently, the way laws are written, we go too far in giving people freedom when this is the consequence. Something needs to be done to protect innocent people from this. And so what would be the method YOU would use to keep someone like the very disturbed young man at Va. Tech from buying those guns? Dr. Grohol,
I must say I am astonished at your viewpoint. I am, by the way, a psychotherapist in private practice who has taught (college) for years against stigmitizing those labelled with mental disorders. But currently, the way laws are written, we go too far in giving people freedom when this is the consequence. Something needs to be done to protect innocent people from this. And so what would be the method YOU would use to keep someone like the very disturbed young man at Va. Tech from buying those guns?

]]> By: Ken http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199875 Ken Wed, 02 May 2007 15:37:55 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199875 Dr. Grohol, I'm just curious if you're a member of the National Rifle Association? I ask because they are known for advocating against ANY gun control measures, including the bans of assault weapons (that have no home protection or "sport hunting" application), and for being against the ban on armor-piercing/"cop-killer" bullets, or any sensible gun control measure. Are you sure you're not promoting extreme-Right NRA stances via "mental health advocacy"? Dr. Grohol, I’m just curious if you’re a member of the National Rifle Association? I ask because they are known for advocating against ANY gun control measures, including the bans of assault weapons (that have no home protection or “sport hunting” application), and for being against the ban on armor-piercing/”cop-killer” bullets, or any sensible gun control measure. Are you sure you’re not promoting extreme-Right NRA stances via “mental health advocacy”?

]]> By: Claire http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199771 Claire Wed, 02 May 2007 07:41:54 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199771 Dr. Grohol, excellent post. Incidentally, women are more likely to attempt suicide by overdosing on medication. Why stop with the database for purchasing firearms? Why not create the database for people wanting to purchase Tylenol? People who are intent on committing suicide will find a way to do it (e.g. how many people have hung themselves in their prison cells?). All this law does is give people a false sense of security. It will also prevent those with mental illness from getting jobs. I suppose if we want for people who have been treated with a mental illness to be unemployable, then this law is a good start. Dr. Grohol, excellent post. Incidentally, women are more likely to attempt suicide by overdosing on medication. Why stop with the database for purchasing firearms? Why not create the database for people wanting to purchase Tylenol? People who are intent on committing suicide will find a way to do it (e.g. how many people have hung themselves in their prison cells?). All this law does is give people a false sense of security. It will also prevent those with mental illness from getting jobs. I suppose if we want for people who have been treated with a mental illness to be unemployable, then this law is a good start.

]]> By: Kent http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199703 Kent Wed, 02 May 2007 02:32:17 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199703 Another relevant point is that the standards for committment vary from state to state - it being very easy to commit someone in some states and much less easy in other states. So whether or not a person would have this particular Constitutional right curtailed (with the possibility of having additional rights being curtailed in the future) might very well depend on what state they resided in at the time they were going through their emotional distress. Another relevant point is that the standards for committment vary from state to state – it being very easy to commit someone in some states and much less easy in other states. So whether or not a person would have this particular Constitutional right curtailed (with the possibility of having additional rights being curtailed in the future) might very well depend on what state they resided in at the time they were going through their emotional distress.

]]> By: Philip Dawdy http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199581 Philip Dawdy Tue, 01 May 2007 17:47:41 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199581 fine post. important questions. now linked on my site. fine post. important questions. now linked on my site.

]]> By: John M. Grohol, Psy.D. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199577 John M. Grohol, Psy.D. Tue, 01 May 2007 17:29:45 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199577 I guess my issue is why the focus on regulating only guns, as though that's the only tool a person could use to either kill themselves or others. Granted, it is the *easiest* tool to use for that purpose, but it by no mean limits a person's ability to think imaginatively about other means (as the OK bombing tragedy showed us). What about knives or ingredients used to make a small bomb? Shouldn't we limit access to those as well if the litmus question, "Have you ever, in your life, been a danger to yourself or others?" I guess I bristle at the thought that there's no time limits put on these things and that, once labeled, you are so labeled for life as someone who is too wacky to be entrusted with certain items. I guess my issue is why the focus on regulating only guns, as though that’s the only tool a person could use to either kill themselves or others. Granted, it is the *easiest* tool to use for that purpose, but it by no mean limits a person’s ability to think imaginatively about other means (as the OK bombing tragedy showed us).

What about knives or ingredients used to make a small bomb? Shouldn’t we limit access to those as well if the litmus question, “Have you ever, in your life, been a danger to yourself or others?”

I guess I bristle at the thought that there’s no time limits put on these things and that, once labeled, you are so labeled for life as someone who is too wacky to be entrusted with certain items.

]]> By: Rose http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/comment-page-1/#comment-199566 Rose Tue, 01 May 2007 17:06:21 +0000 http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/05/01/mental-health-stigma-alive-and-well-in-virginia/#comment-199566 I've had friends and family members who have struggled with issues of mental health. I deplore the stigma they've had to endure. I wish for the day that mental illnesses are treated with the same clinical urgency as physical illnesses. But I don't see an issue with keeping guns out of the hands of people who have been found to be such a danger to themselves or others that they've been involuntarily committed. I'm thinking of a beloved family member who struggled with depression so severe it took years of off and on residential treatment -- a gun in her hand could have ended her life before she found relief. The schizophrenic brother of a friend, who suffered delusions of paranoia -- who might he have harmed while under the hold of his disease? I'm struggling to come up with an example of a mental illness so severe as to warrant involuntary treatment that would NOT be a good reason to withhold a firearm, and I can't think of one. Can you help me by giving me an example? I’ve had friends and family members who have struggled with issues of mental health. I deplore the stigma they’ve had to endure. I wish for the day that mental illnesses are treated with the same clinical urgency as physical illnesses. But I don’t see an issue with keeping guns out of the hands of people who have been found to be such a danger to themselves or others that they’ve been involuntarily committed. I’m thinking of a beloved family member who struggled with depression so severe it took years of off and on residential treatment — a gun in her hand could have ended her life before she found relief. The schizophrenic brother of a friend, who suffered delusions of paranoia — who might he have harmed while under the hold of his disease? I’m struggling to come up with an example of a mental illness so severe as to warrant involuntary treatment that would NOT be a good reason to withhold a firearm, and I can’t think of one. Can you help me by giving me an example?

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